Intelligent Creatures

[silentspace]

Why would intelligent creatures attack an obviously superior force? What would compel two standard orcs to attack a standard first level party of four?

Generally, I think the rule of thumb that an encounter take up 20% of the party's resources is an excellent idea. There are lots of gameplay, mechanics, and player fun reasons for this. But how do you justify this? Published adventures come up with some truly idiotic rationales, mostly along the lines of:

‘The main body of creatures is out getting their hair done at a beauty salon, leaving only a few creatures to defend their lair. The rest will come back in small, manageable chunks.’

Or

‘The creatures assume the party is a group of average peasants, and will attack’

So my question is – what rationales do you have for intelligent monsters to attack players (in a balanced encounter)?

 

[NeuroZombie]

I think that, sometimes at least, alignment may play a role in an attack. Creatures that are Chaotic Evil, for instance, are just abiding by thier very nature to kill maim and slaughter.

You are right tho, many times a published adventure does not follow any kind of logic in these instances. I try to make such scenarios make more sense, but it can be very tough sometimes given the plot of the module.

 

[diaglo]

well if they are truly intelligent they should use tactics.

attack from surprise, at range, and behind something.

never show their true numbers.

kill the obvious spellcasters first.

etc...

 

[silentspace]

well if they are truly intelligent they should use tactics.

True, but a really well-planned attack increases the Encounter Level, no?

By the way, I meant no disrespect to the adventure publishers out there. It's a tough thing to rationalize.

 

[diaglo]

maybe they are surprised and just react violently to try and scare the party away?

they have a family heirloom they are guarding and don't want to lose it to the party.

they are afraid the other reindeer will call them names or not let them play in any reindeer games.

they are mortal enemies...orcs and elves; kobolds and gnomes; goblins and dwarves


they are bored and it is easier to destroy something than build it up


they see the party as easy pickens.

he who has the most toys wins


slavers R us


each must be taken on a case by case basis. and worked so it fits your campaign.

edit: much like the pcs don't know that orc 1 and orc 2 have no other class lvls. the orcs don't know the pcs aren't just peasants. it isn't until they tango they learn their mistake.

 

[Altalazar]

I think the point is that two lone orcs would NOT attack an obviously armed adventuring party. Not unless they were drunk or collossolly stupid.

Now, if the party were to disguise itself as peasants and wandered by, the Orcs, knowing how intimidated the peasants always are, might show themselves and try to intimidate the party, but they'd probably be shocked if attacked and then would run away (assuming they survived the encounter).

I think the game is always more interesting when you don't have things that don't make sense, like obviously stupid attacks, etc. That way when something like that DOES happen, it ought to get the players to scratch their heads and ask "why?" rather than just chalk it up to an unrealistic game world.

This worked rather well for me in an adventure in a city where the players kept trying to trick the city watch so they could do certain things and their tricks, even the obvious ones, all worked. Eventually, as they noticed this and started really talking to the guards, they discovered the whole watch had been feebleminded - and eventually determined why. But this was determined all through roleplaying. If it hadn't been a "realistic" campaign, they might have totally overlooked it as just stupid adventure design.

 

[diaglo]

and so too this edition relies heavily upon core rules. so if you read what is provided you can get ideas too. much like the publishers did i'm sure. here is an example from the 3.5 SRD under the Orc:

COMBAT
Orcs are proficient with all simple weapons, preferring those that cause the most damage in the least time. Many orcs who take up the warrior or fighter class also gain proficiency with the falchion or the greataxe as a martial weapon. They enjoy attacking from concealment and setting ambushes, and they obey the rules of war (such as honoring a truce) only as long as it is convenient for them.

emphasis mine. they are CR 1/2 each.

 

[Rel]

So my question is – what rationales do you have for intelligent monsters to attack players (in a balanced encounter)?

I think there are several possible rationalizations for this behavior.

The first is simply the "fight or flight" instinct built into creatures. We can all probably remember doing things in the heat of the moment that put us in over our heads that, given the benefit of some perspective and time to think things out, we wouldn't have done. This is probably even more true in a belligerent society where only the bold and strong survive, such as is expected among the humanoids.

Another possibility is that the beings may be more afraid of the consequences of NOT attacking than attacking. Their religious beliefs may dictate that dying a glorious death in battle lands you in eternal paradise while running from battle results in your death at the hands of the chieftain and damnation as a coward. Or maybe its an instinct to preserve their family or young that causes them to attack an obviously superior threat.

That brings us to the question of how obviously superior the threat is. Granted, a pair of orcs going up against an iconic party of four 1st level characters don't stand a good chance. But if both get lucky and land hits with their greataxes on turn 1, the odds just got a lot better.

Also, as parties rise in level, the power level that they possess vs. the power level that their appearance suggests my differ considerably. For example, the same four iconic adventurers at level 3 might look like easy meat for 6 orcs. Just because the Fighter now has a magic sword, the Wizard carries a few more scrolls, the Cleric can cast Cure Moderate Wounds and the Rogue gets an extra d6 of Sneak Attack damage doesn't mean that they appear more fearsome than four 1st level characters for whom those same 6 orcs would be quite a challenge. Assuming there are fewer 2nd level heroes wander the world than 1st level heroes and so on, the odds probably don't appear so bad for the average band of orcs.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Two straight-out-of-the-monster-manual orcs would NOT attack a standard party of adventurers; not unless they have a very real advantage of some sort. Orcs may be kinda dumb, but they ain't stupid enough to assume these armed and armored guys are a bunch of peasants out for an afternoon stroll! What would those peasants be doing wandering around orc-infested territories anyway?

There are so many good reasons to not use published adventures. Stuff like this is just one of them...

 

[mmadsen]

Why would intelligent creatures attack an obviously superior force?

I don't think an intelligent creature would attack an obviously superior force unless surprised and cornered -- which isn't all that unusual in the canonical dungeon scene: a burly human fighter kicks in the door and cuts them (the Orcs/Bugbears/Gnolls) down with the help of his adventuring friends.

What would compel two standard orcs to attack a standard first level party of four?

I don't think two standard orcs would attack a standard first-level party of four -- but a dozen orcs might attack a standard fourth-, fifth-, or sixth-level party of four (unless they're wearing their levels on their sleeves, so to speak, with glowing weapons, obviously magical companions, etc.). And a couple dozen orcs would certainly attack a caravan of goods guarded by a handful of armed guards. After all, guards aren't likely to fight to the death to protect a merchant's goods.

Generally, I think the rule of thumb that an encounter take up 20% of the party's resources is an excellent idea. There are lots of gameplay, mechanics, and player fun reasons for this. But how do you justify this?

It makes much more sense if the party takes the initiative (as in a typical dungeon crawl) and forces confrontation only when it has the odds in its favor.

Published adventures come up with some truly idiotic rationales, mostly along the lines of:

‘The main body of creatures is out getting their hair done at a beauty salon, leaving only a few creatures to defend their lair. The rest will come back in small, manageable chunks.’

Leaving just a small garrison is perfectly reasonable if you're not expecting an attack -- and if the party is stealthy, taking the lair piecemeal allows for playable encounters.

Should the bulk of the force return to the stronghold/lair in bite-size chunks? Probably not, but the party should have surprise and fortifications in their favor by that point.

‘The creatures assume the party is a group of average peasants, and will attack’

Realistically, aggressive creatures would attack if they thought they had the drop on a weak foe -- and they'd sound the alarm, gather a larger force, and attack en masse if they thought they faced a strong foe.

Once the party realizes that a show of force brings the whole orc army, and that apparent weakness draws in easily slaughtered, smaller forces, they might be reluctant to reveal their hand so easily.