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<blockquote data-quote="Petrosian" data-source="post: 276966" data-attributes="member: 1149">Someone said...&quot;First of all, I must point out that all of the calculations on Empowered spells are incorrect. A 10d6 fire ball double empowered does not equal an enhanced fire ball, as the damage is not in dice, but the final result is multiplied 1.5. This may seem nit-picky, but it is really more important with spells such as magic missile, various orb spells, chain lightning, ect. An otherwise average roll by multiple missile could end up on the bad side of the rounding down rule. Especially if each missile/orb is only rolling one dice each. You could enhance it five times, and if you roll a 1, you get a 1, as the base damage would be multiplied 1.5 for each time enhanced was applied. (By strict interpretation of the feat, this is the way to calculate it.)&quot;Actually if you pay attention to the rules for multiple multiples, it says (clearly iirc) that when applying multiple multiples you add them So two empowers would be 1+.5+.5 = 2x the roll, not as you suggest 1+5 x each rounding for each case. The discussion i recall it being cited in was about double empower bull strength and whether it could reach 10 or 9.Someone else said...&quot;yeah because empower is better than maximize that means it's unbalanced.&quot;Remember Empower ONE LEVEL is often as good as maximize even tho it is one level down. An empowered magic missile does 3, 4, 6, 7 on its d4+1 modified roll, producing an average of 5 per missile, the exact same as maximize. The empower weighs in 1 level lower.If there is ANy question as to whether you can or cannot by the rules stack empowers we have the FAQ&quot;&nbsp; You can apply most metamagic feats more&nbsp; than once. Just&nbsp; stack&nbsp; up&nbsp; the&nbsp; costs,&nbsp; and&nbsp; remember&nbsp; to&nbsp; apply&nbsp; the additional&nbsp; effects&nbsp; to&nbsp; the&nbsp; basic&nbsp; spell.&nbsp; For&nbsp; example,&nbsp; if&nbsp; you extend a spell twice, you get 3 times the duration, not 4 times&nbsp; the&nbsp; duration.&nbsp; (Each&nbsp; extension&nbsp; adds&nbsp; 100%&nbsp; of&nbsp; the spell’s base duration.) &nbsp; There are a few metamagic feats that are constructed so as&nbsp; to&nbsp; make&nbsp; stacking&nbsp; worthless&nbsp; or&nbsp; pointless. You&nbsp; cannot, for example, get more than&nbsp; maximum damage out of a spell by maximizing the spell more than&nbsp; once. (If you want&nbsp; to&nbsp; send&nbsp; the&nbsp; spell’s&nbsp; damage through the roof, use Empower&nbsp; Spell&nbsp; multiple&nbsp; times.)&nbsp; Heighten&nbsp; Spell&nbsp; already allows&nbsp; you&nbsp; set&nbsp; the&nbsp; spell’s&nbsp; effective&nbsp; level&nbsp; anywhere&nbsp; you want (and can manage), so there’s no point in applying the feat more than once. &nbsp;&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Petrosian, post: 276966, member: 1149"] Someone said... "First of all, I must point out that all of the calculations on Empowered spells are incorrect. A 10d6 fire ball double empowered does not equal an enhanced fire ball, as the damage is not in dice, but the final result is multiplied 1.5. This may seem nit-picky, but it is really more important with spells such as magic missile, various orb spells, chain lightning, ect. An otherwise average roll by multiple missile could end up on the bad side of the rounding down rule. Especially if each missile/orb is only rolling one dice each. You could enhance it five times, and if you roll a 1, you get a 1, as the base damage would be multiplied 1.5 for each time enhanced was applied. (By strict interpretation of the feat, this is the way to calculate it.)" Actually if you pay attention to the rules for multiple multiples, it says (clearly iirc) that when applying multiple multiples you add them So two empowers would be 1+.5+.5 = 2x the roll, not as you suggest 1+5 x each rounding for each case. The discussion i recall it being cited in was about double empower bull strength and whether it could reach 10 or 9. Someone else said... "yeah because empower is better than maximize that means it's unbalanced." Remember Empower ONE LEVEL is often as good as maximize even tho it is one level down. An empowered magic missile does 3, 4, 6, 7 on its d4+1 modified roll, producing an average of 5 per missile, the exact same as maximize. The empower weighs in 1 level lower. If there is ANy question as to whether you can or cannot by the rules stack empowers we have the FAQ " You can apply most metamagic feats more than once. Just stack up the costs, and remember to apply the additional effects to the basic spell. For example, if you extend a spell twice, you get 3 times the duration, not 4 times the duration. (Each extension adds 100% of the spell’s base duration.) There are a few metamagic feats that are constructed so as to make stacking worthless or pointless. You cannot, for example, get more than maximum damage out of a spell by maximizing the spell more than once. (If you want to send the spell’s damage through the roof, use Empower Spell multiple times.) Heighten Spell already allows you set the spell’s effective level anywhere you want (and can manage), so there’s no point in applying the feat more than once. " [/QUOTE]

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