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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HEL Pit Fiend" data-source="post: 278458" data-attributes="member: 5971">Ok bossNo they are not.double empowered fireball (+4 levels) ---> 20d6 = 10d6 x(1+.5+.5) = x2enhanced fireball (+4 levels) ---> 20d6 = 10d6 +10d6and if looking at it by dice clouds your logic, lets look at it in pointsdbl powered fireball (ave dam) = 70 = 35 +17.5 +17.5enhanced fireball (ave dam) = 7020d6 = 20d6 = 70 = 70they look the same to me.Again, you are incorrecta die roll of 15 empowered multiple times would look like this:empower once --> 15 +7.5 = 22.5 = 22empower twice --> 15 +7.5 +7.5 = 30empower thrice --> 15 +7.5 +7.5 +7.5 = 37.5 = 37and so onof course there is NO rounding down on an EVEN roll.round down ONLY on the final result...Let me clairify what they are really talking about in the FAQ.  Some people were getting confused as to the stacking of MM feats so the question was, if you stack 2 empowers does it:---> 1. base x1.5 x1.5 = x2.25or---> 2. base x(1 +.5 +.5) = x2of course, we find out it was the latter (x2)That FAQ has to do with the way the multipliers stack, as it is shown they are added and not multiplied, it has nothing to do with how or when to round down a die result.No.Other epic feats do not require 2 or 3 other epic feats to make them useful, for example:Improved MayshotMighty RageEpic ProwessVorpal StrikeBlinding SpeedEpic SpellcastingDistant ShotDragon WildshapeEpic ToughnessImproved Spell Capacityand on and on........NONE of them require the need for 2 or 3 other epic feats to make them great.  They are great by themselves, but Enhanced Spell feat is not, even you will agree that Enhance Spell ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES at least 2 improved metamagic feats to make it compete with other metamagic.Feat slots don't grow on trees IMC.  Three slots is a heavy price for practically no improvement...No!Career wizard players are smarter than that.  The slots you BURN in taking Improved Meta three times will put you behind the curve in raw damage dealing power.Let me demonstrate:A typical 30th level player character Wizard.--average wealth: 4.3 million gold--intelligence: 34 = (16 +5 *inherent* +6 *headband* +7 *one every 4 levels).--fort, reflex saves: 21 (6 +5 *epic* +5 *cloak* +5 dex/con *20 ability scores*)--save vs 3rd level spells: 25--save vs 8th level spells: 30--hit points: 225 = (7.5 x 30)--magic items may include, rings of evasion, elemental resistances/immunity (you get the picture)The Enhanced/Improved Meta wizard feat progression:21st-- Improved Spell Cap (10th)23rd-- Improved Spell Cap (11th)24th-- Improved Spell Cap (12th)26th-- Enhanced Spell27th-- Improved Metamagic (-1)29th-- Improved Metamagic (-2)30th-- Improved Metamagic (-3)The Enhanced happy wizard casts superheated fireballs:Fireball at 12th level, Enhanced (x1), Maximized (x1), Empowered (x8)A scorching 365 damage, but take a look at this:The Empower wizard feat progression21st-- Improved Spell Cap (10th)23rd-- Improved Spell Cap (11th)24th-- Improved Spell Cap (12th)26th-- Improved Spell Cap (13th)27th-- Improved Metamagic (-1)29th-- Improved Spell Cap (14th)30th-- Improved Spell Cap (15th)Enhanced wizard casts superdry horrid wiltings:Wilt at 15th level, Empower (x7)A whopping 506 damageNot only that, if these 2 wizards face off and throw these 2 mega spells at each other, lets see what happens:Wizard saving vs the 12th level superheated fireball = 25 - 21 = 4 or better ===> 85% survival chanceWizard saving vs the 15th level superdry wilting = 30 - 21 = 9 or better ===> 0% survival chance, half damage is enough to kill the wizard anyway (506/2 damage > 225 hit points)....After the dead wizard is looted, who's laughing all the way to the bank now?Empower BEATS EnhancedDon't even get me started on this one.  By the time you get Intensify Spell down to +1/level, I will be throwing around 800 hit point Wiltings at 18 to 21st level slots.  This one is a loser all the way around.Remember, Horrid Wilting, not fireball, is the spell of choice when you reach high levels.  Here I will list the reasons:--1. Fireball has 3rd level saves (i.e. they suck)--2. Creatures of CR 21+ typically have all kinds of elemental resistances, your fire/acid/cold balls are even less effective--3. Horrid Wilting covers an area twice that of Fireball, ouch!Where Horrid Wilting is concered, you will have to be 40th level before Enhanced, Maxed, Empowered, Horrid Wiltings surpass straight Empowered Wiltings.Empower is still the champ.........</blockquote>

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