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Interesting Decisions vs Wish Fulfillment (from Pulsipher)
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6341113" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Why can't you have both? Why can't the former lead, at least some of the time, to the latter?</p><p></p><p>It seems completely fake and silly to pretend there's a real "versus" in there. It's a blatant false dichotomy, to me, at least. I can see an individual group trending one what or other more, but that's because there's only a limited amount that can happen in any given setting. Certainly I know that my game definitely offers both.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what the "sole dominant factor" stuff is about. That doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything.</p><p></p><p>EDIT - I will be very honest and say that I straight up don't believe you when you claim that your game is "very hard". <em>Every</em> time I've seen a RPG campaign where the DM or writer claimed that, it wasn't actually true, because RPGs are RPGs, not pure games. All the ones I've seen fell into:</p><p></p><p>A) Unfair/Killer DM-style stuff (like Tomb of Horrors - not actually "hard", merely very lethal, which is quite different).</p><p></p><p>or</p><p></p><p>B) Fiddly/complicated/tedious/lengthy/demanding of note-taking, but not actually challenging.</p><p></p><p>or rarely</p><p></p><p>C) Fair but highly lethal play which borders on the "Killer DM" realm, but doesn't involve as many "GOTCHAS!" (though it probably will involve some). It's not actually hard though.</p><p></p><p>RPGs in general just are not something that is easy/hard, and approaching them as if they are tends not to be fruitful, IME.</p><p></p><p>I also don't really buy that there are players who totally don't want to be challenged. I do buy that were are groups where the players don't like to see TPKs frequently and are disinterested in scenarios where their PCs have a high chance of dying, but that doesn't align with hard/easy. You can have something that's very simple and straightforward, and even fair, and yet ultra-lethal and thus no fun to them, or you can have something where the chances of death of PCs is absolute zero, but the chances of failure at what they are doing is extremely high unless they play it very smart (trying to thwart someone who probably can't kill them, but does want to achieve something that they oppose, for example).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 6341113, member: 18"] Why can't you have both? Why can't the former lead, at least some of the time, to the latter? It seems completely fake and silly to pretend there's a real "versus" in there. It's a blatant false dichotomy, to me, at least. I can see an individual group trending one what or other more, but that's because there's only a limited amount that can happen in any given setting. Certainly I know that my game definitely offers both. I'm not sure what the "sole dominant factor" stuff is about. That doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything. EDIT - I will be very honest and say that I straight up don't believe you when you claim that your game is "very hard". [I]Every[/I] time I've seen a RPG campaign where the DM or writer claimed that, it wasn't actually true, because RPGs are RPGs, not pure games. All the ones I've seen fell into: A) Unfair/Killer DM-style stuff (like Tomb of Horrors - not actually "hard", merely very lethal, which is quite different). or B) Fiddly/complicated/tedious/lengthy/demanding of note-taking, but not actually challenging. or rarely C) Fair but highly lethal play which borders on the "Killer DM" realm, but doesn't involve as many "GOTCHAS!" (though it probably will involve some). It's not actually hard though. RPGs in general just are not something that is easy/hard, and approaching them as if they are tends not to be fruitful, IME. I also don't really buy that there are players who totally don't want to be challenged. I do buy that were are groups where the players don't like to see TPKs frequently and are disinterested in scenarios where their PCs have a high chance of dying, but that doesn't align with hard/easy. You can have something that's very simple and straightforward, and even fair, and yet ultra-lethal and thus no fun to them, or you can have something where the chances of death of PCs is absolute zero, but the chances of failure at what they are doing is extremely high unless they play it very smart (trying to thwart someone who probably can't kill them, but does want to achieve something that they oppose, for example). [/QUOTE]
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Interesting Decisions vs Wish Fulfillment (from Pulsipher)
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