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Interesting Decisions vs Wish Fulfillment (from Pulsipher)
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6345698" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>I'd just like to point out that my experience is largely the same. I ran one campaign from 1st to 18th (The World's Largest Dungeon), and the Savage Tide AP (up to 10th level) just to name two campaigns in 3e/3.5. And, yup, same experiences - player restraint avoided most of the commonly noticed problems. Heck, we never had a caster issue because no one played a tier 1 character for years. Everyone hated Vancian casting.</p><p></p><p>BryonD is under the mistaken impression that because I find that 4e fixed many of 3e's issues, that I somehow hate 3e. The single biggest reason I play 4e is because it's a thousand times easier for me to prepare adventures in 4e than it was in 3e. Again, for me. The mountain of work it was for me to run a 3e campaign meant that long before 4e was even a gleam in anyone's eye, I had given up prepping adventures for 3e and had gone purely to running modules. </p><p></p><p>If Pathfinder had fixed that issue with 3e, then I'd probably be playing Pathfinder. But, it didn't. Pathfinder is just as much work to DM as 3e is and I'm far, far too busy to put that much work into prepping sessions. I just don't have that kind of time anymore. So, 4e gets the nod, despite its failings. I'd consider going back to AD&D because of the ease of prep, but, the lack of tactical depth that I got with 3e and then 4e means that I would not enjoy it that much. So, again, I stick to 4e. </p><p></p><p>5e looks like it's hit a nice balance. Good tactical level choices mixed with strategic level options and the return of logistical level choices as well. Seems like a good balance to me. 3e focuses so much on strategic level choices that I get swamped (as the DM) trying to prepare. 4e abandoned a lot of the strategic level in favor of the tactical level which makes it much easier to prep (no spell lists as one example) but, loses a lot of strategic level fun (which is where I believe the Combat as War fans reside). </p><p></p><p>For example, in the knight levying peasants example, that would be problematic in 4e since adding that many combatants to a fight would make the fight take FOREVER to resolve. Dragging a fight out to two hours at the table is not my idea of fun. So the strategic level tends to get ignored in favor of tactics.</p><p></p><p>And, let's be honest, neither 3e nor 4e is interested in logistics. Both systems heal far too quickly, and make resources far too easy to replace. And I enjoy the logistical level of play as well. </p><p></p><p>I think the model of CaW vs CaS tends to be too simplistic. There should be three elements there and they are all important. Ignoring one and emphasizing another just causes problems. As I said, I think 5e is striking a nice balance here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6345698, member: 22779"] I'd just like to point out that my experience is largely the same. I ran one campaign from 1st to 18th (The World's Largest Dungeon), and the Savage Tide AP (up to 10th level) just to name two campaigns in 3e/3.5. And, yup, same experiences - player restraint avoided most of the commonly noticed problems. Heck, we never had a caster issue because no one played a tier 1 character for years. Everyone hated Vancian casting. BryonD is under the mistaken impression that because I find that 4e fixed many of 3e's issues, that I somehow hate 3e. The single biggest reason I play 4e is because it's a thousand times easier for me to prepare adventures in 4e than it was in 3e. Again, for me. The mountain of work it was for me to run a 3e campaign meant that long before 4e was even a gleam in anyone's eye, I had given up prepping adventures for 3e and had gone purely to running modules. If Pathfinder had fixed that issue with 3e, then I'd probably be playing Pathfinder. But, it didn't. Pathfinder is just as much work to DM as 3e is and I'm far, far too busy to put that much work into prepping sessions. I just don't have that kind of time anymore. So, 4e gets the nod, despite its failings. I'd consider going back to AD&D because of the ease of prep, but, the lack of tactical depth that I got with 3e and then 4e means that I would not enjoy it that much. So, again, I stick to 4e. 5e looks like it's hit a nice balance. Good tactical level choices mixed with strategic level options and the return of logistical level choices as well. Seems like a good balance to me. 3e focuses so much on strategic level choices that I get swamped (as the DM) trying to prepare. 4e abandoned a lot of the strategic level in favor of the tactical level which makes it much easier to prep (no spell lists as one example) but, loses a lot of strategic level fun (which is where I believe the Combat as War fans reside). For example, in the knight levying peasants example, that would be problematic in 4e since adding that many combatants to a fight would make the fight take FOREVER to resolve. Dragging a fight out to two hours at the table is not my idea of fun. So the strategic level tends to get ignored in favor of tactics. And, let's be honest, neither 3e nor 4e is interested in logistics. Both systems heal far too quickly, and make resources far too easy to replace. And I enjoy the logistical level of play as well. I think the model of CaW vs CaS tends to be too simplistic. There should be three elements there and they are all important. Ignoring one and emphasizing another just causes problems. As I said, I think 5e is striking a nice balance here. [/QUOTE]
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