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Interesting Decisions vs Wish Fulfillment (from Pulsipher)
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6345978" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>...</p><p></p><p>You pretty much hit the nail on the head with "Black and White", then pulled the nail out, threw it on the floor, kicked it under the table, and said "what nail?". <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>Yes, "Black" and "White" is a great analogy. You're using two terms that are the equivalent of "Black" and "White" to describe something that is pretty much always a middling shade of grey. It is absolutely actively unhelpful to call things "Black" or "White" when they're actually grey. You keep saying stuff about people preferring one or the other, whilst excluding the vast majority of people, who prefer a mix of the two - probably a mix that is so grey that it's hard to say if it's black-er or white-er, except with another shade right next to it!</p><p></p><p>So you say you want to engage in a meaningful discussion. I buy that. Your problem, then, is two-fold.</p><p></p><p>1) You are using worthless absolutist terms with a lot of baggage. You can claim they have no baggage for you, but it's clear they do for most people, so your view of the baggage is irrelevant if you want to discuss it with people who aren't you! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>The absolute nature of them is deeply unhelpful. Less absolute terms would be more helpful.</p><p></p><p>2) You appear want to suggest people all prefer one or the other, or that versions of D&D lean on way or the other. That's a fact not in evidence, indeed there's considerable evidence to the contrary!</p><p></p><p>So I am only more convinced by your excellent analogy that using the absolutist terms CaW and CaS, without modifiers or quantifiers is actively (if completely unintentionally!) unhelpful. As is the apparent belief that everyone prefers one or the other to a meaningful degree.</p><p></p><p>I mean, I'm sorry, but if I prefer 70% black and 30% white, the colour I prefer is GREY, not black. You might point out that it's slightly more black than the 50/50 guy or whatever, and a lot more black than the 30/70 dude, but we all still prefer grey. Only the guy who is at about 95/5 has something so close to black that the term is going to be appropriate. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]63128[/ATTACH]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 6345978, member: 18"] ... You pretty much hit the nail on the head with "Black and White", then pulled the nail out, threw it on the floor, kicked it under the table, and said "what nail?". :D Yes, "Black" and "White" is a great analogy. You're using two terms that are the equivalent of "Black" and "White" to describe something that is pretty much always a middling shade of grey. It is absolutely actively unhelpful to call things "Black" or "White" when they're actually grey. You keep saying stuff about people preferring one or the other, whilst excluding the vast majority of people, who prefer a mix of the two - probably a mix that is so grey that it's hard to say if it's black-er or white-er, except with another shade right next to it! So you say you want to engage in a meaningful discussion. I buy that. Your problem, then, is two-fold. 1) You are using worthless absolutist terms with a lot of baggage. You can claim they have no baggage for you, but it's clear they do for most people, so your view of the baggage is irrelevant if you want to discuss it with people who aren't you! :) The absolute nature of them is deeply unhelpful. Less absolute terms would be more helpful. 2) You appear want to suggest people all prefer one or the other, or that versions of D&D lean on way or the other. That's a fact not in evidence, indeed there's considerable evidence to the contrary! So I am only more convinced by your excellent analogy that using the absolutist terms CaW and CaS, without modifiers or quantifiers is actively (if completely unintentionally!) unhelpful. As is the apparent belief that everyone prefers one or the other to a meaningful degree. I mean, I'm sorry, but if I prefer 70% black and 30% white, the colour I prefer is GREY, not black. You might point out that it's slightly more black than the 50/50 guy or whatever, and a lot more black than the 30/70 dude, but we all still prefer grey. Only the guy who is at about 95/5 has something so close to black that the term is going to be appropriate. :D [ATTACH=CONFIG]63128._xfImport[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]
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