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Interesting Decisions vs Wish Fulfillment (from Pulsipher)
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6346207" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I've heard terrorism defined as the illegal use of violence to effect political change. </p><p></p><p>Political change is rarely the goal of adventurers. 'Banditry' would probably be a more accurate term, more in keeping with the vaguely medieval setting.</p><p></p><p> I get what you're trying to say. You want to believe that 4e 'failed' because you and others like you rejected it. It's an empowering thing to believe. But, the only thing you have to support that is the fact that had a short run. You can't point to data that say it sold less than other editions - in fact, the little data available suggests that it sold quite well. An insider admitted, years ago, what kind of goals were set for 4e, and the fact that it 'failed' merely shows that it didn't meet those goals. We also have some indication as to why, though it's an unpleasant topic of conversation, the upshot being that development of DDI was never completed.</p><p></p><p>And, yes, 4e almost certainly did grow the base - it didn't actually chase anyone away from the hobby (they only ran as far as Pathfinder) and it did attract and retain new players (IMX, 4e retained new players better than any edition I'd ever used to introduce people to the hobby). </p><p></p><p>Ruin Explorer made a good point about that. If you adopted 4e, you might have encountered new players - in my case, it was via the Encounters program and local conventions, and see how easy it was for them to learn 4e. It was surprising to see new players quickly pick up a game that presented some hurdles for you or your group, because you were 'un-learning' tricks you'd long used to cope with the game's issues, while new players were free of that baggage. If you were a non-adopter, you retreated into an established circle of players who, like you, favored a given past edition. You were less likely to encounter new players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6346207, member: 996"] I've heard terrorism defined as the illegal use of violence to effect political change. Political change is rarely the goal of adventurers. 'Banditry' would probably be a more accurate term, more in keeping with the vaguely medieval setting. I get what you're trying to say. You want to believe that 4e 'failed' because you and others like you rejected it. It's an empowering thing to believe. But, the only thing you have to support that is the fact that had a short run. You can't point to data that say it sold less than other editions - in fact, the little data available suggests that it sold quite well. An insider admitted, years ago, what kind of goals were set for 4e, and the fact that it 'failed' merely shows that it didn't meet those goals. We also have some indication as to why, though it's an unpleasant topic of conversation, the upshot being that development of DDI was never completed. And, yes, 4e almost certainly did grow the base - it didn't actually chase anyone away from the hobby (they only ran as far as Pathfinder) and it did attract and retain new players (IMX, 4e retained new players better than any edition I'd ever used to introduce people to the hobby). Ruin Explorer made a good point about that. If you adopted 4e, you might have encountered new players - in my case, it was via the Encounters program and local conventions, and see how easy it was for them to learn 4e. It was surprising to see new players quickly pick up a game that presented some hurdles for you or your group, because you were 'un-learning' tricks you'd long used to cope with the game's issues, while new players were free of that baggage. If you were a non-adopter, you retreated into an established circle of players who, like you, favored a given past edition. You were less likely to encounter new players. [/QUOTE]
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