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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Interesting Decisions vs Wish Fulfillment (from Pulsipher)
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<blockquote data-quote="Aenghus" data-source="post: 6346326" data-attributes="member: 2656"><p>In the Action Movie paradigm the plot tends to be stated up front, transparent and typically isn't messed with. It tends to be "Bring down the BBEG" with a side order of "Save the Hostage" and "Now it's personal". Action Movie logic is in effect, specifically that "Action is Effective" and beating up bad guys and blowing up stuff leads to victory. A final direct confrontation with the BBEG is guaranteed even if it doesn't make sense by strict logic.</p><p></p><p>The Heist Movie paradigm is "Get the maguffin by any means deemed acceptable and escape" with a sideorder of "We're all crooks here" and "Something always goes wrong.". Twists are very common in heist movies. The plans are often overcomplex with multiple points of failure, and are designed to be entertaining to watch more than effective. The boring bits like hiding for eight hours in a box tend to be skipped. Intra-party conflict and treachery is a common feature.</p><p></p><p>I think the underlying argument here is about aesthetics and taste. In the former should they survive the party are guaranteed a face to face confrontation with the BBEG, and probably a monologue, followed by a dramatic showdown. In the latter a hostile encounter with the mark is a potential failure condition and generally something to avoid.</p><p></p><p>I'm trying to come up with a third paradigm. Maybe the AntiHero Movie paradigm, where the winner is whoever is willing to sacrifice whatever is necessary to gain victory, regardless of the cost to themselves or others. "Victory requires gettin dirty", "There is no honour" and "No good deed goes unpunished". In this paradigm a personal confrontation with the BBEG is something to be avoided, you want to kill him as safely and efficiently as possible. The only problem with nuking the BBEGs palace from a safe distance is gaining proof of death and to hell with collateral damage.</p><p></p><p>Maybe an acceptable dichotomy is "Planning is the best route to victory" vs "Planning is a waste of valuable playing time". I've seen players with attitudes re this topic across the entire spectrum, and the extremes don't mix well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aenghus, post: 6346326, member: 2656"] In the Action Movie paradigm the plot tends to be stated up front, transparent and typically isn't messed with. It tends to be "Bring down the BBEG" with a side order of "Save the Hostage" and "Now it's personal". Action Movie logic is in effect, specifically that "Action is Effective" and beating up bad guys and blowing up stuff leads to victory. A final direct confrontation with the BBEG is guaranteed even if it doesn't make sense by strict logic. The Heist Movie paradigm is "Get the maguffin by any means deemed acceptable and escape" with a sideorder of "We're all crooks here" and "Something always goes wrong.". Twists are very common in heist movies. The plans are often overcomplex with multiple points of failure, and are designed to be entertaining to watch more than effective. The boring bits like hiding for eight hours in a box tend to be skipped. Intra-party conflict and treachery is a common feature. I think the underlying argument here is about aesthetics and taste. In the former should they survive the party are guaranteed a face to face confrontation with the BBEG, and probably a monologue, followed by a dramatic showdown. In the latter a hostile encounter with the mark is a potential failure condition and generally something to avoid. I'm trying to come up with a third paradigm. Maybe the AntiHero Movie paradigm, where the winner is whoever is willing to sacrifice whatever is necessary to gain victory, regardless of the cost to themselves or others. "Victory requires gettin dirty", "There is no honour" and "No good deed goes unpunished". In this paradigm a personal confrontation with the BBEG is something to be avoided, you want to kill him as safely and efficiently as possible. The only problem with nuking the BBEGs palace from a safe distance is gaining proof of death and to hell with collateral damage. Maybe an acceptable dichotomy is "Planning is the best route to victory" vs "Planning is a waste of valuable playing time". I've seen players with attitudes re this topic across the entire spectrum, and the extremes don't mix well. [/QUOTE]
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