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Interesting Decisions vs Wish Fulfillment (from Pulsipher)
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6348367" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Yes and no. Hirelings, for example, is a very good example of strategic (or operational [MENTION=1932]Savage Wombat[/MENTION]) play. Hiring spear carriers to bolster your ranks makes sense in strategic play. "Bring more guys to the fight" is rarely a bad strategy after all. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>But, in 4e, that's going to become a huge PITA. Even using the cohort (that's the wrong term - but, I forget the right one) rules from DMG 2 (?) or the NPC rules in the DMG 1, adding in half a dozen allied combatants is going to grind combat to a crippling crawl. And minion rules don't help that much on the player side since you actually want your hirelings to survive more than one fight.</p><p></p><p>Note, 3e isn't a whole lot better here, but, still, from a table time perspective, not as bad. A bunch of Warrior 1 or 2 hirelings generally won't slow combat down that much. It's not like they have a whole lot of tactical choice in combat - roll a single attack, roll damage. 4e NPC's generally will have a basic attack and an encounter level attack as well, which does slow things down.</p><p></p><p>Note, it can be done in 4e, it's just slow.</p><p></p><p>So, I do disagree that strategic play is limited to "wildly overpowered exploits". Do you consider Bless+Bardic music wildly overpowered? The "buff before combat" option is not very strong in 4e, but is a pretty key element in success in 3e. Even in 1e and 2e, buffing can make a big difference. It does help a lot when invisibility lasts all day. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Sure, on the high end, you can get some ridiculous combinations, but, in 3e Sweet Spot play, the options are still there to perform all sorts of actions before combat starts. Even something as simple as a couple of Monster Summonings before combat starts can make a huge difference in the encounter. I've never heard anyone complain that Monster Summoning 4 is a wildly overpowered spell.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6348367, member: 22779"] Yes and no. Hirelings, for example, is a very good example of strategic (or operational [MENTION=1932]Savage Wombat[/MENTION]) play. Hiring spear carriers to bolster your ranks makes sense in strategic play. "Bring more guys to the fight" is rarely a bad strategy after all. :D But, in 4e, that's going to become a huge PITA. Even using the cohort (that's the wrong term - but, I forget the right one) rules from DMG 2 (?) or the NPC rules in the DMG 1, adding in half a dozen allied combatants is going to grind combat to a crippling crawl. And minion rules don't help that much on the player side since you actually want your hirelings to survive more than one fight. Note, 3e isn't a whole lot better here, but, still, from a table time perspective, not as bad. A bunch of Warrior 1 or 2 hirelings generally won't slow combat down that much. It's not like they have a whole lot of tactical choice in combat - roll a single attack, roll damage. 4e NPC's generally will have a basic attack and an encounter level attack as well, which does slow things down. Note, it can be done in 4e, it's just slow. So, I do disagree that strategic play is limited to "wildly overpowered exploits". Do you consider Bless+Bardic music wildly overpowered? The "buff before combat" option is not very strong in 4e, but is a pretty key element in success in 3e. Even in 1e and 2e, buffing can make a big difference. It does help a lot when invisibility lasts all day. :) Sure, on the high end, you can get some ridiculous combinations, but, in 3e Sweet Spot play, the options are still there to perform all sorts of actions before combat starts. Even something as simple as a couple of Monster Summonings before combat starts can make a huge difference in the encounter. I've never heard anyone complain that Monster Summoning 4 is a wildly overpowered spell. [/QUOTE]
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Interesting Decisions vs Wish Fulfillment (from Pulsipher)
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