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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 2386051" data-attributes="member: 151">From what I gathered, the point Dancey was making was simply this: (presumably pre-3E) marketing tests indicated taht when it comes to starting up a game, being a system that emphasized less-rules did not translate into a more rapid adoption of the system for gameplay purposes.  In other words, just because one was using Risus versus Rolemaster, their test groups did not suddenly experience a marked up-tick the proportion of gaming time, simply by merit of using a simpler ruleset.  I may be wrong, but that was the impression I was left with.Now, it's a valid criticism to say that he didn't back that data up in any meaningful way, either with numbers or methodology.  It's certainly valid to say that there wasn't enough detail from that data to judge the veracity of that comment.  Dancey is also something of a lightning rod for people's ire, for various reasons, a factor which shouldn't be discounted.I'm willing to bet that the test groups were either pure neophytes, seasoned gamers or both.  In both cases, I can see character creation taking a longer time in either system.  For the former group, just learning the ropes is a challenge; for the latter group, feeling out the system is another one.To wit: my group of experienced gamers of some years ago (a bunch well-versed in GURPS lore) agreed to try a Castle Falkenstein game that I wanted to run.  I personally would label the original CF as a pretty darn rules-light system: and it drove us to distraction.  The lack of specificity made it hard to imagine characters within the system.  One character wanted to create a Hercule Poirot-esque character...but most of his unique factors were purely descriptive fluff.  The rules system doesn't allow for specific archetypes.  You can't be Monk or Spenser, you can only be Sherlock Holmes.  You can't be Constantine or Howl, you can only be Merlin.  And so on.One thing that is often overlooked in lighter systems is that a lack of options also can be interepted as a lack of individuality.  My group switched to GURPS from AD&D back in the day because we got tired of every 3rd level fighter being like every other 3rd level fighter, except for his equipment and maybe his strength score being a point higher or lower.  Some gamers see this as a strength, and a way to make rules secondary to player's ideas....and some of us don't.I think that Dancey's market research prior to 3E was probably flawed...but it was also the ONLY MARKET RESEARCH EVER DONE in the RPG field.  That counts for something, surely.</blockquote>

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