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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ace" data-source="post: 2389180" data-attributes="member: 944">This is an excellent point! One reason some folks do not like D&D3x or Hero or the like is "in play" rules overhead -- Time is spent referencing rules (few people have them memeorized enough that they never need the books) or worse implementing rules (Heros Phased Combat was slow IME) -- when the wanted to do Roleplay or Setting Exploration or some other thing  FREX if someone is playing D&D3x and the combat is not the main source of enjoyment what was meant to be a throw away ercounter can take a lot of time away from other things -- a combat (4 rounds) with 6 on the PC side and 12 on the opposing however balanced can take a long time at medium to high levels --  Even with extensive prep the sheer volume of options can bog down the game. This is great for a main course but if the combat isn't the reason for the game it can feel like a burden.Now IMO at its roots 3x/d20 is not a rules heavy system -- almost everything you do is d20+mods and in actual play it is pretty fast -- skill check Roll d20 add the mods on your sheet meet the DC -- easy peasey What gives  the illusion of complexity are the myriad of rarely used subsystems (I have played or run in 5 3e campaigns and never seen a Bull Rush ) and the options that can mutate the battle field (Summon Monster is classic here) -- combat and prep in D&D are long -- the rest of the game is fast -- I would almost say --rules light Other systems cater to different styles -- I ran a large battle (12 Vampires in a fortified bunker vs the PC's) and the battle lasted less than 15 minutes real time -- GURPS light/expanded is this fast for me as well -- This allows more emphasis on different parts of the game  and makes a 6 hour session of mostly roleplay (The Holy Grail of some gamers) a distinct possibilityAlso rules contribute to the feel of a game a lot more than you might think. Rules light FEELS  freer than D&D or other more restrictive systems -- its more than just a point buy vs. class level dichotmy -- It is a  matter of bringing ideas to the table -- Rules Light systems (good ones anyway) seem to grant more freedom (as an example Risus-- I can create a Flying Monkey Ninja Knight in seconds Flying Monkey 3d Ninja 3d Knight 4d) and leave the details to imagination  -- If I had  the right templates I could do this in D&D quickly as well -- race Flying Monkey Class -- Ninja Lx Fighter with X Feats Level X) but dealing with the baggage can be a hassle lets say you want to make a Wandering Scholar  in D&D core rules  -- you can take Bard, Rogue, or Wizard (or something odd) mainly -- each of these brings a package of goodies with it that may not fit  -- why does my Wandering scholar have a Murderous 5d Sneak Attack ? In Buffy I simply put X into Intelligence and X in Knowledge -- get the Nerd Trait and I am ready Even class based systems ike Castles and Crusades can seem to do better -- OK take Fighter nad make INT a prime -- you are a scholar Or even better Risus Scholar 4d Wanderer 3d Jack of trades 3d This is a huge asset in less structed play enviroments -- The actual play will seem more spot on the other systems without changing the parameters of the rules as written -- thats a substantial advantage for some and why Rules Lite has its perrenial fans I am also of the opinion that younger gamers (12 to say 24 maybe) want and need more rules. Not only do they often have (in case of the kids anyway) less social maturity and dispute resolution skills the type of game they need is different Younger kids want and need conflict resolution driven games like most D&D -- kick in the door-- kill the critter-- take stuff -- power up-- repeat is nearly an ideal set up for them. They also often have more time to play and prep  so the rules help them Gamers as their tastes change often find this model less satisfactory. Older gamers in particular (30+ ) often have less time or interest in the mechanical set up of games and many are able to handle a more complex social contract. The rules become an impediment to the FEEL of the desired game and sometimes the actual play as well</blockquote>

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