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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 2389484" data-attributes="member: 20239">I completely understand your point here, but is the extra detail a rules-heavy system provides an actual benefit or is it just a facade that makes everyone feel more comfortable while really changing almost nothing?The discussion so far has centered around comparing D&D and C&C and how a "Jump check" would be resolved.In C&C, the CK picks a target number and has the PC make an ability check.  Almost no guidance is provided for what the target number should be (outside the base target numbers of 12 and 18).  The modifiers are left to the discretion of the DM.In D&D, the DM has several modifiers that can be applied to the Jump skill check, the result of which determines how far the PC actually jumps.  The game provides heavy guidance on what modifiers to apply based on the situation.  However, since the DM creates and explains the environment, he is in control of the situation and what modifiers apply.  The DM is also allowed (even encouraged) by the rules to apply any additional situational modifiers he feels are appropriate.  The +2/-2 rule is given as a guideline, but the DMG makes it clear that the DM should deviate from this suggested standard if necessary.How are these two systems significantly different in the level of DM judgement required to resolve the situation?  I suggest all of the extra rules and numbers are simply a screen that gives players the illusion that the DM is constrained in setting the difficulty.  There's no real benefit in terms of how likely a player is to know his chances of success.  I have no proof and this is merely my opinion, but I suspect if you took the same DM and had him run a game with both rulesets and the same exact situation came up, the Target Number for the C&C game would not deviate significantly from the modified DC required to succeed in the D&D game.  In other words, I suspect the DM has a preset idea in his head about how difficult certain tasks should be and will use whatever system of task difficulty modifiers the rules present him with to achieve a result that fits his preconceived notion of how easily the task should be accomplished.  In D&D, the DM does so one level removed from the difficulty (by manipulating the environment in which the modifiers are applied) and in C&C the CK does so by directly modifying the difficulty, but the end result as far as the player is concerned is the same.</blockquote>

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