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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 2389994" data-attributes="member: 32164">Since people have been picking on Castles and Crusades, I'll do the same. I think it comes down to the fact that the difference is what sort of guidelines the rulebooks give to the CK/DM in deciding how to set the TN/DC.In 3e D&D, the DC is a number that can either be "ballparked" as easy (DC 5), average (DC 10), tough (DC 15), challenging (DC 20), formidable (DC 25), heroic (DC 30), nearly impossible (DC 40) or whatever or SPECIFICALLY figured out. The 3.5 rules then give a lot of suggestions for adding up modifiers, by way of explaining to the DM the combination of factors which might result in a "heroic" task difficulty.What the C&C book does is give a much looser interpretation. The guideline C&C gives FIRST is that a "level-appropriate" challenge is one in which the TN equals the base TN (12 or 18) + the character's level. Alternatively, it retains the rough difficulty levels, but ignores the easy stuff as just "routine," and recommends circumstance modifiers of (I believe) +5 (tough), +10 (challenging), +20 (Heroic), +30 (nearly impossible). Sound familiar? So the systems are the same, but C&C's emphasizes first the world as it subjectively applies to the PCs, whereas the "alternate" D&D method is careful calculation based on some kind of "objective reality." In both cases, 20th level PCs have a roughly 50/50 shot at accomplishing "heroic" tasks.Oh, for the record, the 3.5 DMG (page 30) does say, "For extremely favorable or unfavorable circumstances, you can use modifiers greater than +2 and less than -2. For example, you can decide that a task is practically impossible and modify the roll or the DC by 20. Feel free to modify these numbers as you see fit, using modifiers from 2 to 20." So it is a bit handwavey, but there are so many examples presented that two DMs who actually read the 3e rules are likely to be in the same ballpark.This gets to what I was saying above. D&D 3e spends a lot of time trying to teach DMs how to fairly present a consistent world. C&C spends its time focusing on "presenting" level-appropriate challenges. Personally, I hate the concept of "level-appropriate" challenges - it's one beef I have with D&D's CR system. Although I understand why it exists - more of that "teaching DMs how to be fair."And if you use your D&D experience to guide your C&C rulings, then D&D did its job, you're just ungrateful.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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