Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 2390564" data-attributes="member: 32164">I confess I do not have my book with me at work. I read it last night and the edition bashing was pretty clear. I'll quote the paragraph if I can find it, but I'll come back to this later.In THAC0, a character had to roll a certain number to hit AC0. As the character progressed, his "target number" (THAC0) decreased (A THAC0 of 19 rather than a +1 to hit). The C&C SIEGE system takes a base target number (18) and then adjusts it downward to 12 if the skill is a prime. In other words, Primes in Siege give a TN of 12 vs. 18, rather than a +6 to checks) Consequently, having a Prime implies that the task is somehow easier for the character with a Prime, as opposed to the character is more skilled. This gets to the subjective, relative nature of C&C's resolution system. However, the mere fact that Primes lower the target number, rather than raising the skill roll is THAC0-ish. After all the times I've explained this, if you still don't understand, I can't help you. I grant the Prime thing is a onetime issue rather than recurring and that more difficult tasks mean higher difficulty numbers, not lower ones, which is not THAC0ish. But why a lower target number rather than a bonus to the skill? Just seems weird. FWIW, the THAC0 crack was intended as a friendly jab between us, in an effort to keep this thread light...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Those are things it DOES by virtue of what it takes away from the Core rules of the game (as presented in the OGL that C&C is published under). I specifically asked what it "added" to the game. You gave the answers I've come to expect from C&C players - it enhances the game experience by virtue of what it removes. That's a subjective value judgement, not an objective addition of new rules.It means that the decision to "handwave" difficulty numbers based on the subjective criteria of easy, average, tough, challenging, heroic, is part of the Core Rules.The decision to base all relevant skills on one's attributes and level, perhaps with some allowance for "class skills," is another simplification of the core rules (and one that was presented in the OGL Unearthed Arcana.Taking out feats is a simplification of the Core Rules. So is removing attacks of opportunity from combat.C&C, for all its assertions, is 3e stripped of its skill and feat systems, and one of its more complex combat rules (attacks of opportunity). That's it. The designers then looked at C&C's classes and realized that without those 3e elements, they were out of whack. So they borrowed the XP progression tables from AD&D and claimed that those somehow brought the classes back into balance. Or more accurately, that even though they were out of balance, the differerent XP progressions somehow "compensated" for that. Finally, the Trolls added in an ultra-simplistic skill system that they gave a clever name too (SIEGE), because a system that says "your PC has no skills" isn't one players will play for long.I don't need C&C to play rules light D&D. I can do that without buying it. But I can't make money telling people to play their D&D game and throw out large portions of the rules. And neither could Troll Lord Games. So instead, they published a rulebook. One which, I'd bet, sold primarily to people who already owned the Core Rules.I freely admit and give credit to the Trolls for inventive marketing. Wizards of the Coast couldn't make money selling rules-light D&D, which is why they give the rules away for FREE (the SRD).I'm amazed (and impressed) that Troll Lord Games can.</blockquote>

Verification