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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SweeneyTodd" data-source="post: 2411162" data-attributes="member: 9391">Man, buzz, I'm trying to see where you're coming from. (I'm pretty sure it's the same place as RyanD, not that I think you're just echoing him, but because you both seem to have the same perspective.)I've taught people to play roleplaying games, recently. We used systems where characters had  three attributes and two or three special abilities from a list of a dozen. Combat was attribute vs. attribute, three or four rounds at the most. The rules take up about forty pages, half of that for things only the GM needs to know.They've told me that this level of crunch was too much for their comfort level. Even breaking up combat into individual rounds instead of one roll kind of bored them. So we went lighter.I wouldn't even think about springing d20 on these folks. But they are gamers now. We play regular sessions, and it's not freeform.My impression is that you're either not aware of or not interested in this segment of the hobby. I admit that they're not going to buy rulebooks and supplements, so I can see why "the industry" would ignore them. But they do exist.</blockquote>