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<blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 2412907" data-attributes="member: 20239">I think there's something inherently &quot;Warhammer&quot; about rolling vs. your own WS score to see if you &quot;hit&quot; independent of what your opponent might be doing or wearing (i.e. - there is no equivalent of Armor Class).&nbsp; I think there's something inherently &quot;Warhammer&quot; about either having a skill or not (i.e. - no skill &quot;ranks&quot;).&nbsp; I think there's something inherently &quot;Warhammer&quot; about progression being tied to lifestyle changes, rather than simply the acquisition of XP (i.e. - assemble the required equipment/training for your career before entering it, rather than the reverse).There are lots more.&nbsp; Since you've played both WFRP and d20 games, I'm sure you're just as familiar with the differences in mechanics as I am.Now I will be the first to admit you could take the SRD; fold, spindle and mutilate it into something wholly different; and come up with a game that reproduces those things using a d20 rather than a d10, but at that point any &quot;networking efficiencies &quot; your d20 game might have are basically gone.&nbsp; Any familiarity someone might have with D&amp;D or any other SRD-based d20 game is going to do them little to no good in terms of being familiar with your &quot;Warhammer&quot; ruleset.&nbsp; If Ryan's earlier remark is accurate......then making changes significant enough to &quot;Warhammerize&quot; d20 will re-introduce all of the inefficiencies that d20 and the OGL are supposed to be eliminating.&nbsp; I don't think there is any significant &quot;networking efficiency&quot; in simply using a d20 rather than a d10.&nbsp; In other words, if you change the d20 system enough to replicate the Warhammer system, you're really not designing based on the &quot;d20 system&quot; anymore, no matter what dice you use.If the game is similar enough to the core d20 system outlined in the SRD that it actually retains those &quot;networking efficiencies&quot;, then the mechanics are significantly different enough that (while you may be playing &quot;d20 Warhammer&quot;) you're not really playing &quot;Warhammer&quot;.&nbsp; For someone who plays Warhammer as much for the system as the setting, that's just not good enough.This is the attitude that I have a real problem with.&nbsp; Many d20 fans feel that Warhammer (and CoC and Traveller and Gamma World and Runequest and etc.) are nothing more than cool settings/genres with inferior rulesets tacked on.&nbsp; Again, I call this d20 elitism in its most snobbish and unappealing form.&nbsp; I think lots of d20 fans and publishers would like to think that every other popular game made its mark only based on its &quot;fluff&quot; and not on having a well designed rule system and that the world will thank them when they swoop in and &quot;save&quot; the game by retaining the great fluff and replacing the &quot;inferior&quot;, &quot;unevolved&quot; rules with a &quot;better&quot; system.&nbsp; Excellence in game design did not suddenly begin and just as abruptly end in the year 2000.&nbsp;&nbsp; :\ Exactly, the only thing you absolutely can't replicate about Warhammer with other mechanics is.....the Warhammer game mechanics.&nbsp; Which, IMHO, are vastly superior to the core d20 system in just about every aspect.&nbsp; I'm sure YM will V.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ourph, post: 2412907, member: 20239"] I think there's something inherently "Warhammer" about rolling vs. your own WS score to see if you "hit" independent of what your opponent might be doing or wearing (i.e. - there is no equivalent of Armor Class). I think there's something inherently "Warhammer" about either having a skill or not (i.e. - no skill "ranks"). I think there's something inherently "Warhammer" about progression being tied to lifestyle changes, rather than simply the acquisition of XP (i.e. - assemble the required equipment/training for your career before entering it, rather than the reverse). There are lots more. Since you've played both WFRP and d20 games, I'm sure you're just as familiar with the differences in mechanics as I am. Now I will be the first to admit you [u]could[/u] take the SRD; fold, spindle and mutilate it into something wholly different; and come up with a game that reproduces those things using a d20 rather than a d10, but at that point any "networking efficiencies " your d20 game might have are basically gone. Any familiarity someone might have with D&D or any other SRD-based d20 game is going to do them little to no good in terms of being familiar with your "Warhammer" ruleset. If Ryan's earlier remark is accurate... ...then making changes significant enough to "Warhammerize" d20 will re-introduce all of the inefficiencies that d20 and the OGL are supposed to be eliminating. I don't think there is any significant "networking efficiency" in simply using a d20 rather than a d10. In other words, if you change the d20 system enough to replicate the Warhammer system, you're really not designing based on the "d20 system" anymore, no matter what dice you use. If the game is similar enough to the core d20 system outlined in the SRD that it actually retains those "networking efficiencies", then the mechanics are significantly different enough that (while you may be playing "d20 Warhammer") you're not really playing "Warhammer". For someone who plays Warhammer as much for the system as the setting, that's just not good enough. This is the attitude that I have a real problem with. Many d20 fans feel that Warhammer (and CoC and Traveller and Gamma World and Runequest and etc.) are nothing more than cool settings/genres with inferior rulesets tacked on. Again, I call this d20 elitism in its most snobbish and unappealing form. I think lots of d20 fans and publishers would like to think that every other popular game made its mark only based on its "fluff" and not on having a well designed rule system and that the world will thank them when they swoop in and "save" the game by retaining the great fluff and replacing the "inferior", "unevolved" rules with a "better" system. Excellence in game design did not suddenly begin and just as abruptly end in the year 2000. :\ Exactly, the only thing you absolutely can't replicate about Warhammer with other mechanics is.....the Warhammer game mechanics. Which, IMHO, are vastly superior to the core d20 system in just about every aspect. I'm sure YM will V. [/QUOTE]

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