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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwoSix" data-source="post: 6343295" data-attributes="member: 205">I can see where it can cause problems for some groups, or if the design is implemented poorly.  But doesn't any game where there's some amount of tactical and strategic complexity have to reward skilled play within those elements?   Let's look at the Battlemaster in a vacuum, and not worry about the other subclasses for a minute.  If there's no increase in results between skilled play and unskilled play, then the tactical complexity is meaningless to add to the Battlemaster.  I think that's an obvious point.  The expected contribution (EC) of a skilled battlemaster must be greater than the expected contribution of a unskilled battlemaster, or EC(Sk. BM) > EC (Unsk. BM).  So the question, where do we want to peg the EC of a skilled battlemaster compared to the EC of a champion, for whom tactical skill doesn't have much of an impact on the overall contribution.  (And by pegging the champion as the choice for the neophyte player, that is our expectation, correct?)I think it's also obvious the two cases where 1) EC(Sk. BM) > EC(Unsk. BM) > EC(Champion) and 2) EC(Champion) > EC(Sk. BM) > EC(Unsk. BM)are both things we want to avoid.  So the question is, where do we want to see EC(Champion) at in relation to the battlemaster?My personal preference would be EC(Sk. BM) > EC(Champion) > EC(Unsk. BM).  Battlemaster has a lower floor, but a higher ceiling, with Champion nestled in between.  A skilled Battlemaster can pull ahead (and his overall contribution might be masked by the fact he's assisting others, much like a bard), but the champion stays the better choice for the novice.  I think the concept that EC(Sk. BM) = EC(Champion) > EC(Unsk. BM) would be unsatisfying for the player who chooses battlemaster, as it requires him to play well merely to keep up with his fighter partner.  A player skilled enough to play a battlemaster well is also going to be the player who realizes he can achieve the same result by picking a simpler class.</blockquote>

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