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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Humanophile" data-source="post: 1588828" data-attributes="member: 1049">The "Str should be an innate modifier because, well, the big guy is pretty scary" side of the arguement falls flat when we think for a moment all the things that Str can mean; the high Str guy could be wiry, or just have powerful magic on his side.  Give me a properly epic belt of giant strength, I can heft boulders...  but I'd still look like dorky me, not likely to make a bunch of Hell's Angels back away.  (At least until I take some action to demonstrate my incredible strength, thus earning me a hefty circumstance bonus on my Intimidate check.)  Exceptionally big (or little) characters already have a built-in modifier to their intimidate checks (which can be a little silly, since the halfling mafia don's intimidation is far less in your face and physical prowess based), and exceptionally large characters should reflect their intimidating size with already existing traits.But that said, Reapersaurus is right; this debate has been going on for a long time.  People are going to stick to their opinions regardless, it's kind of silly to expect a conversion after the first round of evidence is rebuffed.  Besides, Shader made his position clear, he was just looking for a reference.  (To justify a position I disagree with, yes, but who among us can't reference rules that lead to situations we find silly?)  If you're looking for a Str-based Intimidate rationalization, intimidating in combat takes a standard action; surely enough time to make some impressive show of force in most environments.  I'll keep playing my way, but intimidating in combat is sub-optimal enough I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.And on that note, Str-based Intimidate really doesn't make minning Cha that much less painless for the fighter/barbarian; the kind of person who's going to min Cha is clearly going to prefer attacking over intimidating in combat, and out-of-combat Charisma has its own flaws that make it sub-optimal compared to Diplomacy.  Cha-minned tanks tend to let someone else do the talking anyways, or play in "just role-play it" games where the character's ability is absolutely negligible anyways.</blockquote>

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