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<blockquote data-quote="Retreater" data-source="post: 9016010" data-attributes="member: 42040">I have a group that has largely played only 5e. If you've read my previous posts about them, you might know how I've struggled to present challenges in 5e (too hard or too easy). Having run both PF2 and 4E, I realize that either system would do what I want to do better - they want thrilling combats, character build options, etc. My struggle is ... which system? There are pros and cons to each.<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">I think 4E is smoother than PF2 (and I think better designed). </li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">But 4E has big HP bloat and combats can take 2 hours (or more).</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">4E is out of print and doesn't have easily accessible online tools, whereas PF2 has free access to their rules online, free character builders, and is currently in stock.</li>
</ul>While the decision is months out, and I'm certainly going to be getting my group's feedback, I'd like to have my research ready to bring to the table. Are there any more pros and cons I should bring to the discussion?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Retreater, post: 9016010, member: 42040"] I have a group that has largely played only 5e. If you've read my previous posts about them, you might know how I've struggled to present challenges in 5e (too hard or too easy). Having run both PF2 and 4E, I realize that either system would do what I want to do better - they want thrilling combats, character build options, etc. My struggle is ... which system? There are pros and cons to each. [LIST] [*]I think 4E is smoother than PF2 (and I think better designed). [*]But 4E has big HP bloat and combats can take 2 hours (or more). [*]4E is out of print and doesn't have easily accessible online tools, whereas PF2 has free access to their rules online, free character builders, and is currently in stock. [/LIST] While the decision is months out, and I'm certainly going to be getting my group's feedback, I'd like to have my research ready to bring to the table. Are there any more pros and cons I should bring to the discussion? [/QUOTE]

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