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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thullgrim" data-source="post: 9016064" data-attributes="member: 8103">the online tools are accessible but you have to work through the 4e discord server to get the most out of them.  One issue is VTT play. If this were a live group I’d go with 4e. If it’s an online group I’d go with PF2.There are some good suggestions out there for dealing with the combat length.  They generally boil down to half the hit points on monsters and double the damage.  For lore nuance you can use the new math in MM3 or the 4e monsters on a business card.  Alternate win conditions and paring the skill challenge rules in combat can also work for some combats. For my money 4e is still the best Fantasy Tabletop Tactics game around.   I’d love a decent 4e game.  I’m running 2d20 Achtung!Cthulhu for my in person group but after that I may try them on some 4e.</blockquote>