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<blockquote data-quote="Retreater" data-source="post: 9016993" data-attributes="member: 42040">Our most recent adventuring day (which was at the recommended level according to the module) went like this.1) Our cleric didn't have to use a single healing spell.2) The rogue did take 11 points of damage from a trap.3) Most encounters were over before the enemies' turn came up in Initiative.4) Enemies that have +3 to hit, 4 damage, with 4 HP. Even en masse, they're not challenging a 5th level party.So what do I want? <ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some level of tactical play to succeed.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Trying something other than the same thing every round that's going to obliterate your enemies.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">A little bit of fear and survival. </li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Using resources, stretching abilities. </li>
</ul>4e and PF2 can at least do these things. 5e without exhaustive house rules cannot, IME.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Retreater, post: 9016993, member: 42040"] Our most recent adventuring day (which was at the recommended level according to the module) went like this. 1) Our cleric didn't have to use a single healing spell. 2) The rogue did take 11 points of damage from a trap. 3) Most encounters were over before the enemies' turn came up in Initiative. 4) Enemies that have +3 to hit, 4 damage, with 4 HP. Even en masse, they're not challenging a 5th level party. So what do I want? [LIST] [*]Some level of tactical play to succeed. [*]Trying something other than the same thing every round that's going to obliterate your enemies. [*]A little bit of fear and survival. [*]Using resources, stretching abilities. [/LIST] 4e and PF2 can at least do these things. 5e without exhaustive house rules cannot, IME. [/QUOTE]

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