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Introducing Complications Without Forcing Players to Play the "Mother May I?" Game
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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 7556214" data-attributes="member: 85555"><p>My gaming style may be different from your style so take what I say with that in mind. But I've run a lot of campaigns like this, and many of them lasted for quite some time. I have GM logs and even some recordings which I'd be happy to link by PM (and some PDFs I can send as well). I call this the "Boxer from Shantung" approach, where the players are on the rise in the underworld. First I recommend watching and rewatching movies like Boxer from Shantung, Godfather, Scarface etc. Anything that depicts people ascending to power where criminal power groups are involved, or where conflict between such groups are found. It does help to get ideas from relevant media if you haven't already. </p><p></p><p>In terms of running the game, this is my approach: the players are doing character driven stuff, so you should run your campaign that way to (i.e. play the NPCs and their organizations as living breathing characters in the setting). Don't think of setpieces, events, crucial turning points etc. If you map out your organizations, flesh out the characters in them, figure out where all this stuff exists in the world and give the NPCs clear motivations, attachments, desires, etc, that stuff tends to produce the drama you are looking for, and it gives you the information you need to fairly run the organized crime world campaign in a way that is challenging and doesn't become mother may I. If the players confront some low level crime captain for example, if you have the essence of the character in your mind, you will know what approaches might work, even approaches you hadn't thought about before hand--this last part is key to making it not mother may I. Don't go in thinking in terms of "If they offer him the land by the river, he'll agree". Think about what he wants and values at a more fundamental level and that will make the character more open to things the players suggest. All you have to worry about is staying true to the NPCs nature and goals. Any NPC the players meet, no matter how minor, you should be able to answer the question "What does this character want?". Also, it shouldn't be impossible for players to discover before hand, what such a character wants. They are living breathing characters in the setting, sometimes if the players simply go asking around they can glean these kinds of details about a potential foe or ally. </p><p></p><p>I don't think in such a campaign you have to hand the players their victory. What I would do is explain how much power you intend to exert against the players in advance so they understand. By this I mean, tell them frankly if you are playing with kid gloves, tell them honestly if you are using 100% full power when they face off against NPCs (i.e. you use their most lethal abilities and do so in a way that is tactically sound). But be as fair as you can be in your application. I've had campaigns where player characters die trying to rise to the top of a criminal organization, and that can be just as fun and dramatic as success. I've also had campaigns where they toppled a powerful sect and the focus of the adventures became maintaining their hold over their underworld empire. </p><p></p><p>One important thing to consider is once the players or player succeed, you still need to think in terms of intrigue within the organization itself. Make sure you know the characters inside the organization and that will help you figure out where the conflicts are. </p><p></p><p>Some other techniques I have found effective. This kind of campaign works well in urban environments. When you make your cities map them by section and focus on power divisions within the city (i.e. this is Killing Bixie territory, this is the Divine Moon Saber quarter, etc). Then, if you use tables, have different encounter tables for each area. And have a method for determining whether something comes up when players are operating within each area of the city. That will help you apply pressure and introduce conflict naturally. You can also account for specifics to modify the chances. If players walk into a section of town with a retinue of 20 men, and you roll 5 thugs on a table, the thugs are going to back away most likely before any conflict even begins. And table results don't have to be about fighting. Whenever I get a result in these circumstances, I ask myself, why is this NPC, or group of characters, intersecting with the party here? What do they want? I try to come up with the most reasonable and interesting explanation I can, and use that. It also helps, again if you are using tables, to having subtables that give results for specific people in an organization. Of course, you can just decide what happens in these cases. You don't need tables. I just mention them because you seemed to be looking for a method of introducing challenge but in a way that is fair. If the players know you are using a table, they know you are not throwing them a tough challenge just to thwart them (or an easy one to make their time go smooth). I even let my players roll the result much of the time. </p><p></p><p>Also in this kind of campaign, I strongly advice open dice rolls and letting the dice fall where they may. If the players know you are not fudging and know you are wiling to accept whatever results the dice have, whether it favors what you had in mind, what the players want, or something neither of you expected, I find that helps a lot with building trust.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 7556214, member: 85555"] My gaming style may be different from your style so take what I say with that in mind. But I've run a lot of campaigns like this, and many of them lasted for quite some time. I have GM logs and even some recordings which I'd be happy to link by PM (and some PDFs I can send as well). I call this the "Boxer from Shantung" approach, where the players are on the rise in the underworld. First I recommend watching and rewatching movies like Boxer from Shantung, Godfather, Scarface etc. Anything that depicts people ascending to power where criminal power groups are involved, or where conflict between such groups are found. It does help to get ideas from relevant media if you haven't already. In terms of running the game, this is my approach: the players are doing character driven stuff, so you should run your campaign that way to (i.e. play the NPCs and their organizations as living breathing characters in the setting). Don't think of setpieces, events, crucial turning points etc. If you map out your organizations, flesh out the characters in them, figure out where all this stuff exists in the world and give the NPCs clear motivations, attachments, desires, etc, that stuff tends to produce the drama you are looking for, and it gives you the information you need to fairly run the organized crime world campaign in a way that is challenging and doesn't become mother may I. If the players confront some low level crime captain for example, if you have the essence of the character in your mind, you will know what approaches might work, even approaches you hadn't thought about before hand--this last part is key to making it not mother may I. Don't go in thinking in terms of "If they offer him the land by the river, he'll agree". Think about what he wants and values at a more fundamental level and that will make the character more open to things the players suggest. All you have to worry about is staying true to the NPCs nature and goals. Any NPC the players meet, no matter how minor, you should be able to answer the question "What does this character want?". Also, it shouldn't be impossible for players to discover before hand, what such a character wants. They are living breathing characters in the setting, sometimes if the players simply go asking around they can glean these kinds of details about a potential foe or ally. I don't think in such a campaign you have to hand the players their victory. What I would do is explain how much power you intend to exert against the players in advance so they understand. By this I mean, tell them frankly if you are playing with kid gloves, tell them honestly if you are using 100% full power when they face off against NPCs (i.e. you use their most lethal abilities and do so in a way that is tactically sound). But be as fair as you can be in your application. I've had campaigns where player characters die trying to rise to the top of a criminal organization, and that can be just as fun and dramatic as success. I've also had campaigns where they toppled a powerful sect and the focus of the adventures became maintaining their hold over their underworld empire. One important thing to consider is once the players or player succeed, you still need to think in terms of intrigue within the organization itself. Make sure you know the characters inside the organization and that will help you figure out where the conflicts are. Some other techniques I have found effective. This kind of campaign works well in urban environments. When you make your cities map them by section and focus on power divisions within the city (i.e. this is Killing Bixie territory, this is the Divine Moon Saber quarter, etc). Then, if you use tables, have different encounter tables for each area. And have a method for determining whether something comes up when players are operating within each area of the city. That will help you apply pressure and introduce conflict naturally. You can also account for specifics to modify the chances. If players walk into a section of town with a retinue of 20 men, and you roll 5 thugs on a table, the thugs are going to back away most likely before any conflict even begins. And table results don't have to be about fighting. Whenever I get a result in these circumstances, I ask myself, why is this NPC, or group of characters, intersecting with the party here? What do they want? I try to come up with the most reasonable and interesting explanation I can, and use that. It also helps, again if you are using tables, to having subtables that give results for specific people in an organization. Of course, you can just decide what happens in these cases. You don't need tables. I just mention them because you seemed to be looking for a method of introducing challenge but in a way that is fair. If the players know you are using a table, they know you are not throwing them a tough challenge just to thwart them (or an easy one to make their time go smooth). I even let my players roll the result much of the time. Also in this kind of campaign, I strongly advice open dice rolls and letting the dice fall where they may. If the players know you are not fudging and know you are wiling to accept whatever results the dice have, whether it favors what you had in mind, what the players want, or something neither of you expected, I find that helps a lot with building trust. [/QUOTE]
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