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Introducing Complications Without Forcing Players to Play the "Mother May I?" Game
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7561384" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>[MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] - you seem obsessed by 1% chances. I posted guidelines and rules from mulitple systems upthread (Prince Valiant, Classic Traveller, 4e D&D, and maybe BW as well but I can't remember that one exactly), and talked about the odds that they establish, and I even made the point that Admin in Classic Traveller, with its base 1 in 6 chance for untrained and 5 in 6 chance for trained is probably sailing pretty close to meaningful limits here.</p><p></p><p>You seem to be assuming here that the GM will ignore the rules for setting difficulties, and/or will apply them in arbitrary ways that depart from the system rules and guidelines.</p><p></p><p>I don't think it's in dispute that a GM who ignores the system principles may produce a bad play experience - or, in other words, system rules and guidelines are often not arbitrary, but rather are aimed at a particular play experience. The systems that I use are not an exception in this respect.</p><p></p><p>5e has no guidelines - at least in the Basic PDF, but no one has pointed out any found elsewhere - on setting DCs in a way that correlate to particular odds. If you get the same play experience out of 5e that I get out of the systems I play, well done! But most posters who post about 5e make a point of how it <em>differs</em> in play experience from the systems and approach I prefer - and I tend to take that testimony, in combination with my own inferences from readinf the system, as good evidence that 5e differs from my preferences.</p><p></p><p>You may be approaching this in "white room" terms. I'm not. I'm approaching this based on my own play experience plus other posters' reports of their experiences.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7561384, member: 42582"] [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] - you seem obsessed by 1% chances. I posted guidelines and rules from mulitple systems upthread (Prince Valiant, Classic Traveller, 4e D&D, and maybe BW as well but I can't remember that one exactly), and talked about the odds that they establish, and I even made the point that Admin in Classic Traveller, with its base 1 in 6 chance for untrained and 5 in 6 chance for trained is probably sailing pretty close to meaningful limits here. You seem to be assuming here that the GM will ignore the rules for setting difficulties, and/or will apply them in arbitrary ways that depart from the system rules and guidelines. I don't think it's in dispute that a GM who ignores the system principles may produce a bad play experience - or, in other words, system rules and guidelines are often not arbitrary, but rather are aimed at a particular play experience. The systems that I use are not an exception in this respect. 5e has no guidelines - at least in the Basic PDF, but no one has pointed out any found elsewhere - on setting DCs in a way that correlate to particular odds. If you get the same play experience out of 5e that I get out of the systems I play, well done! But most posters who post about 5e make a point of how it [I]differs[/I] in play experience from the systems and approach I prefer - and I tend to take that testimony, in combination with my own inferences from readinf the system, as good evidence that 5e differs from my preferences. You may be approaching this in "white room" terms. I'm not. I'm approaching this based on my own play experience plus other posters' reports of their experiences. [/QUOTE]
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Introducing Complications Without Forcing Players to Play the "Mother May I?" Game
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