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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pdzoch" data-source="post: 6992484" data-attributes="member: 80982">Perception is constantly used, which I think is why there is a passive perception state.  Investigation has to be applied.  It is also a skill that allows for character capability without actually having to role play the thought process (I would not expect a player to conduct Sherlock Holmes type deduction on their own for their character -- just roll).  For many items that would require investigation, I have allowed for automatic success under the heading "inherently obvious to the casual observer" or "common knowledge"Examples:Secret Door.  Passive perception to spot a secret door.  Active perception to search for a secret door.  If found, is it obvious to operate?  if so, open door and enter.  If not, roll an investigation check to see if you can figure out how to open it.  When a player states "I'm searching for a secret door," I have them roll a perception check.  When a player asks if it looks like the room has a secret door, then I have them roll an investigation check.Traps have the same process.  Detection using perception.  Investigation to figure out how to disarm it.In both these cases, my lower level characters are often encountering things well hidden, but fairly obvious connections, functions or causes.  So, they use the perception MUCH more than investigation.Here is another example:  Party comes upon a merchant wagon with slain bodies.  Perception spots the elements of the fight, anyone still hiding, objects of note, etc.  Perception will also note the wounds, if visible.  But investigation would be required to identify what type of wound, and if those wounds are consistent with the way the fight appeared to have occurred (such as noticing wounds indicative of a claw or teeth instead of sword and arrow scattered about the area).In a way, investigation is a check on meaning whereas perception is a check on appearance.</blockquote>

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