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Invisibility and Perception
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<blockquote data-quote="epithet" data-source="post: 6742962" data-attributes="member: 6796566"><p>Wasn't saying that you were doing it wrong, just challenging your assertion that the rules of the game made an elven cloak better than invisibility. The DM's job while running the game includes setting the DCs and giving bonuses and penalties based on the circumstances and how the characters go about doing what they do. In 5e, of course, the bonuses and penalties often take the form of advantage and disadvantage. With the cloak, the advantage is spelled out so that the DM understands the extent of the magical camouflage. For invisibility, though, it seems the DM is assumed to understand the effect of "you can't see me," so the DM should be giving out advantage and disadvantage as appropriate. The invisibility spell doesn't specify the advantage/disadvantage implications of not being seen, because that's up to the DM to figure out.</p><p></p><p>Invisibility would give advantage to hiding, but a carpet of dry leaves and twigs would cancel that. Beastie gets disadvantage to perceive an invisible character, but the Keen Scent trait would cancel that. Even if an enemy detects an invisible character, it might have to pass a wisdom check to understand that there's really someone there when it turns around and looks at the spot where it thinks it heard a footstep, but sees clearly that there is no one there.</p><p></p><p>The benefits of an elven cloak are limited and mechanical. Invisibility, however, is a much more broadly applicable effect, and requires the DM to make rulings based on circumstances. Just because the spell description doesn't provide comprehensive and specific guidance doesn't mean the spell is of minimal benefit, it is the DMs job to determine the benefit of not being seen in any particular situation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="epithet, post: 6742962, member: 6796566"] Wasn't saying that you were doing it wrong, just challenging your assertion that the rules of the game made an elven cloak better than invisibility. The DM's job while running the game includes setting the DCs and giving bonuses and penalties based on the circumstances and how the characters go about doing what they do. In 5e, of course, the bonuses and penalties often take the form of advantage and disadvantage. With the cloak, the advantage is spelled out so that the DM understands the extent of the magical camouflage. For invisibility, though, it seems the DM is assumed to understand the effect of "you can't see me," so the DM should be giving out advantage and disadvantage as appropriate. The invisibility spell doesn't specify the advantage/disadvantage implications of not being seen, because that's up to the DM to figure out. Invisibility would give advantage to hiding, but a carpet of dry leaves and twigs would cancel that. Beastie gets disadvantage to perceive an invisible character, but the Keen Scent trait would cancel that. Even if an enemy detects an invisible character, it might have to pass a wisdom check to understand that there's really someone there when it turns around and looks at the spot where it thinks it heard a footstep, but sees clearly that there is no one there. The benefits of an elven cloak are limited and mechanical. Invisibility, however, is a much more broadly applicable effect, and requires the DM to make rulings based on circumstances. Just because the spell description doesn't provide comprehensive and specific guidance doesn't mean the spell is of minimal benefit, it is the DMs job to determine the benefit of not being seen in any particular situation. [/QUOTE]
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