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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Damogag" data-source="post: 5338405" data-attributes="member: 95952">ThanksBrys.  I believe I read that if there is a tie you look at the modifier I guess in this case the one creatures stealth modifier and the other creature's perception modfier and whichever is higher wins the tie.   Thanks again guys for the help.  The one thing that tripped me up was where under "Pick a Square and Attack" it says "the attacker chooses a square to attack, using whatever information it has gleaned about the enemy's location".  I thought the gleaning came from a successful Perception Check under "Make a Perception Check".  I'm not sure how he gleans anything if the creature is still hidden and invisible to the creature.  If you said well you sense something in this corner and let him pick a square in that corner then it kind of defeats the purpose of being hidden (silent and invisible).  Or you could say if you want to start shooting up the room even though you may nor may not have any reason to believe anything is in the room, just pick a random square. Also, I guess the way it works if the creatures aren't hidden (just goofing off in a dark room, LOL, or fail their stealth checks) but they are still in Total Concealment, such as Kobolds in a dark room, the attacker can sense which square the creature(s) are in and takes a -5 penalty.  The only other advantage would be that the attacker can't use any Opportunity Attacks against them until he can see them.</blockquote>

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