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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 1140104" data-attributes="member: 5834">reIts pretty simple to arbitrate really if you don't try to overintellectualize the problem.Round 1: Visible Rogue and Invisible Rogue move into flanking position. Defender makes a listen check. A. Fails Listen Check: Invisible rogue launches surprise attack on partial action surprise round. This alerts defender to presence of other attacker. B. Succeeds at listen check. He is aware that invisible person is moving behind him. Either way in the abstract world of D&D he is aware that he is being threatened by an invisible attacker. Thus he is flanked. This all depends on how you view flanking though as well. Me personally, I view the defender as irrelevant in the flanking equation.The defender is trying to defend from one side. He is stuck from the other. He tries to defend against the other side. He is stuck from the other. Basically, he turns to defend from attacks on either side as they happen, and is unable to do so. Kind of like a "tag your it" scenario between the defender and flankersIt really doesn't matter that he sees the attack, he knows it is happening. He can hear the person moving their feet, exerting, etc, etc. That is why it is a DC -5 Listen check to pick up on combat. He would basically have to roll a 1 not to be aware of an invisible attacker in melee range. Given that D&D combat is completely abstract, I don't even worry about whether or not they actually hit. It becomes overly complicated if you do for many, many aspects of D&D combat.</blockquote>

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