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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 1302654" data-attributes="member: 2020">Edena_of_Neith here.&nbsp; This thread is meant to be a repost, in totality, of the 1st IR and the 2nd IR.&nbsp; This is it.&nbsp; All of it, from beginning to end.&nbsp; I broke the 1st IR down into a number of folders, for the sake of manageable bookkeeping, and committed these folders to my permanent records.&nbsp; I still have all the folders in storage today, and I will copy them onto this thread.&nbsp; Thus, the totality of the 1st IR will be here for all who wish to see it.&nbsp;&nbsp; The three folders titled Thread One of the 1st IR, Forrester's Intermediate Thread of the 1st IR, and Thread Two of the 1st IR, contain the main story therein.&nbsp; These three folders contain the core material of the 1st IR.&nbsp; These three folders will be presented in the order given above, on pages 1 and 2 of this thread.&nbsp; There are a number of folders with additional material related to the 1st IR.&nbsp; They are:&nbsp; Darwin's Panic Thread, Riot Gear's Open Letter to Edena Thread, Draco's Eric Come Here Thread, Balor's About the IR Thread, Bugaboo's Restarting Thread, Psionicist's What About Thread, Aloisius's What If Thread, Riot Gear's Warriors Thread, Psionicist's Don't Worry Thread, Broken Fang's Technology Thread, Draco's History of Toril Thread, Psionicist's Magicpunk Thread, Riot Gear's War of the Month of Terror Thread, Syklone's If the Gnomes Thread, Teflon's Chaff Thread, and Charwoman Gene's Attack Thread.&nbsp; This additional (and smaller) folders will be presented in the order given above.&nbsp; (The SECOND IR begins on page 4.)&nbsp; I will begin with the first folder, titled Thread One of the 1st IR.&nbsp; Due to the limitations of the ENBoards, I have broken this folder down into 9 posts.&nbsp; Each post is marked by number.&nbsp; So read, and enjoy.&nbsp; &nbsp; Here is the 1st IR.&nbsp; - - -&nbsp; (1ST POST) THREAD ONE OF THE FIRST IRNote: This is an archived topic. It is read-only.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; D&amp;D 3rd Edition News Board &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Other Archived Stuff &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution? (Page 1) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; profile | register | preferences | faq | search &nbsp; &nbsp; This topic is 16 pages long:&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 5&nbsp; 6&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 8&nbsp; 9&nbsp; 10&nbsp; 11&nbsp; 12&nbsp; 13&nbsp; 14&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 16 &nbsp; &nbsp; This topic was originally posted in this forum: General RPG Discussion&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Author &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Topic:&nbsp;&nbsp; What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution? &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Edena_of_Neith&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-03-2001 11:13 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This is meant semi-humorously.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Your world awakens to a new reality.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Gnomes have invented steam power.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They have invented the Consumer Society.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Suddenly, smokestacks start going up in the gnomish country.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Industry appears. The land is a din of pounding hammers and thunderous booms as machines and factories&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; spring up.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The first railroad is built, and the horseless carriage carries trainloads of gnomes to and from the great&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; mines where black coal is scooped up in vast quantities to fuel the growing revolution.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now, the gnomes start building railroads into neighboring countries, bribing the governments, cutting deals,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; making treaties.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes want to dig new mines.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes want to build factories in your city.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes want vast number of changes and upgrades to your local area.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Let's say this occurs in Toril.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes have converted Amn and Tethyr. They are working on Waterdeep and the Lord's Alliance. They&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; have emissaries to Luruar.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They are cutting deals with the Red Wizards, with the cities of the Moonsea, with Westgate.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mulhorand and Chessenta are taking a look. Negotiations have begun in Thesk and Aglarond.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; What would your characters - let us assume they are extremely high level, 25th or so - do?2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Diarnothe&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-03-2001 11:19 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Never mind what a PC would do. Every @(&amp;!*@@ druid in the realms is going to come down on this like call&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lightning on an iron golem.... (and maybe just as effectual too)3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Edena_of_Neith&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-03-2001 11:33 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, of course, the gnomes immediately put out the call that extremists are attacking, endangering lives&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; and wrecking public property.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes put out the call to all good adventurers to put a stop to these marauding druids.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Meanwhile, the smokestacks keep going up. The air becomes polluted and difficult to breath in the cities of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Amn and Tethyr.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes shoot and destroy all the monsters found in their territory, wiping out entire species. The iron&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; horse (railroad) makes this easy to do.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This is done for the good of society, claim the gnomes.4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Amrynn_Moonshadow&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-03-2001 11:49 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; i guess i'd spelljam myself and my loved ones off of toril . . . providing i could get hooked up with the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; starwing fleet defenders of evermeet . . . or something like that. i don't know . . . kiss my elven butt&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; goodbye?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Never anger an elf, we have very long memories.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ~Amrynn Moonshadow&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Edena_of_Neith&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-03-2001 11:54 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You do realize, don't you, that the Elven Imperial Navy refuses to involve itself with the affairs of surface&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; elves on Toril?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Except, obviously, for Evermeet. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Yet even there, they did not come to Evermeet's aid when Kymil Nemesin attacked them.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Therefore, you cannot abandon Toril in this manner.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes invite all elves to join them in their new progressive revolution.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They propose a vast industrial complex in Leuthilspar to produce metal items. One of Leuthilspar's great&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; parks can be sacrificed for this purpose, so no elven homes will have to be, say the gnomes.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes propose clearing a way through the elven forests for an Evermeet railroad, the timber to be&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; used to build elven ships. New and improved ships of the gnome's design.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes advocate the cannon as an effective harbor defense for Leuthilspar.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They feel ironworks should be set up, so that Leuthilspar can produce it's own arsenal of firearms, cannon,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; and great Ironbacks (armored ships.)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Some of the nations of Toril are receptive to the proposals of the gnomes. Others are mulling it over.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Yet others are uninterested.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Your characters could make the difference. What do you do?6 &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; bondetamp&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 12:07 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I would start a labour union. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -bondetamp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -but you may call me sir.7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; GuardianLurker&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 12:24 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; quote:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Your characters could make the difference. What do you do?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, that depends. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If I'm playing the 25th level Archmage Gadgeteer, I cash in.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If I'm playing the curmudgeon ex-adventuring Fighter, &quot;What was good enough for Granpappy is good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; enough for me.&quot;, I complain a lot.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If I'm the tree-hugging druid, I get together with a bunch of my brethern and demonstrate exactly how&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; damaging the reality behind the words &quot;hurricane&quot;, &quot;tornado&quot;, &quot;earthquake&quot;, &quot;flood&quot;, etc. can be to a&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; primitive industrial society.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If I'm the inquisitive Bard, I investigate to find out what caused this sudden change in the Gnome's Behavior&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - surely some form of unearthly demonic magic must be behind it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If I'm the wise Cleric, I gather together a group of young adventurers and send them on a quest to discover&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; why the Gnomish Gods are permitting this, while I try to establish treaties and agreements that will halt the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gnomish advance. (And thanks to magic, a binding agreement takes on a whole new meaning.)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Barbarian (and hir horde) sack a few gnomish industrial towns, then blow the gold in the world's biggest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; party.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If I'm the reclusive sorceror, I enhance my aeries' defenses, and blow up anything that even comes near&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; me.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If I'm the sneaky Rouge swindler, I swindle the gnomes looking for trading partners, the non-gnomes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; looking to cash in, and anyone else (because you can't leave a mark unfleeced). And I spend even more&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; time running away.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Paladin starts training for the apocalyptic battle he is sure is coming.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And the Monk retires to the monastery to contemplate the changes life brings.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And if I'm a member of that adventuring party, I have a wild and wonderous journey through all the planes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; of existence to find out the answer.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; GuardianLurker&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Be seeing you.8&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volaran the Blue&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 01:01 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; FInd one of these oh so spiffy portals Toril is riddled with and get off the planet. The industrial revolution&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; has happened elsewhere with little effect on the planes...even Mechanus is relatively clean in its industry.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Those who call adventurers the most foolish souls alive have never encountered a planewalker.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Volaran the Blue, Archmage of the Singing Caverns&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [This message has been edited by Volaran the Blue (edited 04-04-2001).]9&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Masked&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 01:11 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I for one would realize the gnomes must be stopped. There is only one thing that can come of this ...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Final Fantasy 7+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes must be stopped no matter what the cost.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Maskedimus Prime&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ColonelHardisson&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 01:41 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tangentially...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the &quot;technological&quot; race of D&amp;D? I mean, I&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded out into the universe via&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dwarves have always seemed more technologically inclined in D&amp;D, what with Dwarven-designed forges and&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; great stonework and cleverly designed doors and traps seeming to appear in a lot of adventures. The&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Greyhawk 2000 article in Dragon recently also posits that the Dwarves would be the leaders in technological&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; know-how.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I just don't get where the gnomes became the default tech race. And Tinker Gnomes are an abomination.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sorry; it needed saying. The only two races more annoying are kender and gully dwarves.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Re: the question. The PCs wouldn't do much, except for any druids or maybe rangers and other&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; wilderness-oriented characters - and even these would probably do more &quot;monitoring&quot; than anything else. If&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; things were getting polluted, the druids would likely meet with the gnomes, discuss the problem, and try to&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; come up with mundane and magical ways to eliminate the transmission of pollution. I imagine some might&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; be radical, and resort to violent means, but eventually they'd be brushed aside - there really aren't that&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; many druids running around in the first place. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'd like to know why this is on your mind. Is it a campaign idea that you're about to implement, or have&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; already implemented? &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; By the way, I think the dwarves would eventually simply shove the gnomes aside and become the real&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; technological force i the world. It suits them more.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ?Illegitimis non carborundum.?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Gen. Joseph Stilwell11&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; LostSoul&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 01:46 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; quote:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Originally posted by bondetamp:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I would start a labour union. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ya beat me to it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I would go around supporting the rights of the workers, promoting freedom and equality and other utopian&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; causes, all the while changing the social structure to benefit ME.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then I would take my legions of conscripted soldiers with mass-produced weapons and conquer the WORLD!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; HAHAHAHAHAHA!12&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; PrivateerMatt&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 03:31 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Colonel H, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You beat me to it! I have always wondered about that too. OK, the DL books were good, and *at the time* I&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; really liked the spin they put on gnomes. But here's my dirty little secret -- I don't like how that notion has&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; invaded the rest of fantasy gaming. It's not just D&amp;D, either. I'm sure a lot of you here have played&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EverQuest, where this gnome tinkerer bit is taken to an extreme. I'm sure there are other examples out&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; there too. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Anyway, glad I found a kindred spirit on that topic.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hey, why didn't the kender take off like gnomes did? IMHO they are a much more interesting race. But&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; that's another thread. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (By the way, there are no gnomes in the Iron Kingdoms. Not that you can't play 'em... but they aren't part of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the material we are producing. Nothing personal, we just wanted to do things differently.) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - Matt&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Matt Staroscik * Privateer Press * <a href="http://privateerpress.com/" target="_blank">http://privateerpress.com/</a>13&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Edena_of_Neith&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 04:51 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Colonel Hardisson, just a humorous thing.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well now, it is obvious what happens next.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Elminster, the Chosen, and the Harpers try to stop the gnomes covertly. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes take their losses, then blow up Shadowdale.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; World War is then declared, with Amn, Tethyr, Calimshan, Thay, Zhentil Keep, Mulmaster, Thesk,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mulhorand, and Chessenta on one side, and Waterdeep, the Lord's Alliance, Westgate, Luruar and it's 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; cities, Rashemen, Aglarond, Cormyr, and the Harpers and Chosen on the other side.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sembia is neutral, trading off of everyone, making huge money in the war business.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This war wakes up and annoys the phaerimm, who had been sleeping under Anarouch. (There is a saying&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; with hornets: If you can see them, you're too close ... )&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The phaerimm burst through the ancient and collasping sharn wall, and go to war against everyone.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The elves and dwarves, not yet caught in the holocaust going on, decide now is the time to regain their&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; supremacy over the continent of Toril, which they held for millennia.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They declare war on everyone, and the halflings join them.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Sharn had been sleeping deep under the earth. The phaerimm were their ancient enemies.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now the sharn come up to the surface and go to war against the phaerimm.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; In the Hordelands, the fierce peoples there look west at the mess, and also at the riches for plunder.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They muster all their armies, and march west, and a new Tuigan invasion is begun.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Up in space, the Neogi look down, and the Mind Flayers, and the Goblins, and they see plunder, and their&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; fleets attack in force.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Only to be met by the Elven Imperial Navy, which battles them in spectacular combats across the Torilian&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; skies.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Finally, the tumult wakes up the Tarrasque.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (No more news comes from the world of Toril after this point)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-04-2001).]14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Blood Jester&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 05:05 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; quote:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Originally posted by ColonelHardisson:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tangentially...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the &quot;technological&quot; race of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D&amp;D? I mean, I know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; out into the universe via Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Dwarves have always seemed more technologically inclined in D&amp;D, what with&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Dwarven-designed forges and great stonework and cleverly designed doors and traps&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; seeming to appear in a lot of adventures. The Greyhawk 2000 article in Dragon recently also&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; posits that the Dwarves would be the leaders in technological know-how.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ......&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; By the way, I think the dwarves would eventually simply shove the gnomes aside and&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; become the real technological force i the world. It suits them more.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; OPINION:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Dwarves: being much more conservative, would not rush madly into such a radical change in the ways of the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; world.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Gnomes: are more 'experimental'.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Dwarves: are more in tune with, and reverent of the earth (lower case), they love to mine, but would not&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; strip mine, rape the land, or change its face frivolously.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Gnomes: ...not so much.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Dwarves: don't want to interact with all the other races willy-nilly, so why have extensive railroads?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Gnomes: what changed over there in the last week?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ...and so on.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (One possible answer to your query?)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Blood Jester&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Laugh 'til you die.15&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Blood Jester&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 05:22 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now, what would my PC do?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; My Favorite, a Neutral Good Ranger/Cleric Wood Elf Specialty Priest of Solonor Thelandira? (2nd Ed.)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This abomination against the lands MUST be stopped, the creatures of the lands MUST be protected. After&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; one shot at reasoning (at most) force is not only acceptable, it is called for. And if excessive, rapid violence&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; has been done to the land and the animals, SCR*W the reasoning, war has already been declared by the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; other side!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; My current character, a Lawful Neutral Wizard who worships Azuth:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1)Examine if magic is being used, if so learn about it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2)Calculate the degree to which the natural balance of the world, and of the Weave is being affected.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3)Use various means to scry on the future, and the end results of this behavior.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4)Attempt to use any legal means to dissuade or stop the gnomes.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5)For the betterment of the world, the stability of the realms, and the preservation of the (much preferable)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; status quo, not to mention the ascendancy of magic...utilize whatever means available to eradicate the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gnomish inventions, and lock away (if magical) or destroy (if non-magical) all knowledge of their&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 'technology'.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Blood Jester&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ashtal&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 05:53 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'd say you'd have something akin to Castle Falkenstein, but that's just me. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ashtal - who has no gnomes in her campaign but has Dwarves with gunpowder in a rennaisance culture who&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; brought both steel and a new sense of humanitarianism to the human people in my campaign.17&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Edena_of_Neith&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 06:23 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Blood Jester Wrote:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now, what would my PC do?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; My Favorite, a Neutral Good Ranger/Cleric Wood Elf Specialty Priest of Solonor Thelandira? (2nd Ed.)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This abomination against the lands MUST be stopped, the creatures of the lands MUST be protected. After&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; one shot at reasoning (at most) force is not only acceptable, it is called for. And if excessive, rapid violence&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; has been done to the land and the animals, SCR*W the reasoning, war has already been declared by the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; other side!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : )&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes declare this character a vile outlaw! They are sending their best people after this extremist elf!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Perhaps, say the gnomes, the elves should be excluded from ALL civilized lands, since they are barbarians&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; who could not understand Progress if it struck them in the face!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Blood Jester wrote:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; My current character, a Lawful Neutral Wizard who worships Azuth:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1)Examine if magic is being used, if so learn about it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Answer:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They are using magic, you would learn, although they do not realize it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2)Calculate the degree to which the natural balance of the world, and of the Weave is being affected.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Answer:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The natural balance of both Toril and the Weave are being altered.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Being altered in ways that nobody can predict, although numerous Sages have tried to determine the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; outcome.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes poo-poo the whole thing (that is, research to see if this is dangerous) as backwards thinking.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Onward, upward! That is their motto.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3)Use various means to scry on the future, and the end results of this behavior.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Answer:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; There are many possible endings. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Most of them bewildering beyond comprehension.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Some of them show the world ending in flame.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Some of them show the world filled with buildings that pierce the clouds.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Most of them show gnomish inventions flying through the air, racing across the ground, strange lines hung&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; in the air, the ground covered in strange grey stuff.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Some of them show this great city, with all sorts of races walking by - mind flayers, orcs, kobolds, humans,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; elves, dwarves, halflings, even neogi with their umber hulk servants!, and they are paying no attention to&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; each other, but hurrying down the grey ground amidst a jumble of gnomish machines, strange lights,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; towering buildings, and a tumult of noise.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Where they are going, or what they are doing, cannot even be guessed.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4)Attempt to use any legal means to dissuade or stop the gnomes.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Answer:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The gnomes refer you to their Complaints Department.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Case 55.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Section B, Article 235.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You must go before an Arbitrator, and state your case. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If the Arbitrator allows, this can be taken to Court.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If you win your case in Court, the gnomes will consider your case before the Tethyr Circuit Court.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If that Court is favorable, your case will be considered by the Tethyr supreme court.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If the Tethyr supreme court agrees your case is reasonable, the High Court will take it up.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If the High Court agrees your case is reasonable, the Gnomish Bureucracy will take up your issue, and - the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gnomes proclaim - you will receive a reasonable judgment.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The whole process shouldn't take more than 10 years.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5)For the betterment of the world, the stability of the realms, and the preservation of the (much preferable)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; status quo, not to mention the ascendancy of magic...utilize whatever means available to eradicate the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gnomish inventions, and lock away (if magical) or destroy (if non-magical) all knowledge of their&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 'technology'.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Answer&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; All foretellings show the status quo will be destroyed if the gnomes continue, or if any nation on the planet,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; period, decides to take up the gnomish path.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And another nation is likely to take up the gnomish path, and soon, if the gnomes continue to do as they&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; are doing.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Some things get institutionalized, you see.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-04-2001).]18&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; mastermind&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 06:43 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I would start a factory that produces Pokemon stuff.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'll become a millionaire!!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; mastermind&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Keeper of the &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dungeon Dimension19&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tsyr&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 06:58 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; What would I do?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'd simply kill all the gnomes.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Not like anyone actualy likes gnomes anyhow...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; *grins evily*&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Besides... railroads? Common... depending on the sub-race of gnomes, I might be doing the world a big&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; favor killing them... with a network of railroads across the planet, it could be doomsday...20&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; soldarin&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 07:04 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wait anxiously for the first automobile, then buy one? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :-)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; eatenmyeyes&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 07:53 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wouldn't the rise of technology weaken magic? It was my understanding that the amount of each are&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; inversely proportional to each other and that magic varied depending on the level of tech. Thus, wizards who&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; knew this would try to stop them.&nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; drothgery&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 08:15 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; My PC, presumably a high-level wizard on any world other than Toril (and so a mid-level wizard on Toril),&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; would research the a magical item that, when placed on top of smokestacks, magically filters out the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; pollutants.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; He'd then make a fortune selling them to gnomes.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dave Rothgery&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Picking nits since 1976&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [This message has been edited by drothgery (edited 04-04-2001).]23&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Gez&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 08:16 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; It seems people just don't realize that concerns like &quot;ecology&quot; and &quot;pollution&quot; were just unknown when the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; actual Industrial Revolution happened IRL. If you go back in time in the 19th century and say to people&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;steam engine are dangerous! you will pollute the air, you will all be sick, and the atmosphere will be&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; warmed, and we will all be flooded!&quot; people will think you're some sort of idiotic mystic doomsayer and will&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; discard you and your arguments. Hell, nowadays, even someone as responsible and reasonnable as the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; leader of the One Hyperpower of the world estimate pollution isn't dangerous.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Except for druids or rangers that could be upseted by a railroad coming through her beloved forest, reaction&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; would be either &quot;wow, that's cool&quot; or &quot;why making brutish and bristle machine when magic can achieve the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; same effect more rapidly, comfortably and efficiently ?&quot;.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now, given I *do* know in character, not in metagame thinking, that industry is dangerous, what would I do&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Clean. Gnomes have an innate knwack for magic, and it should be fairly easy for them to learn spells like&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Purify Air&quot;.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You see, with magic items, it is really easy to avoid pollution. Some circlet of Transmute Smock to Air could&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; be put on top of chimney, for example.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You could gather toxins and industrial waste in a place, and when you have enough, ship them to a center&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; where a Sphere of Disruption will destroy it forever.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Even nuclear wastes are of no danger when you can simply banish them forever in the Nowhere.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; About specy extinctions: a D&amp;D world has an incredible bio-diversity, and I think some species could be&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; extincted for the good of all. Notably, several Aberrations, Drow elves, Tinker gnomes, Gully dwarves, and&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kender halflings.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tsyr: What have you against railroads ? In my books, automobile are more doomsday-triggerers than&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; trains. Cars pollute more, takes more places, provoke more accidents, and are one possible cause for&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; obesity (I won't expand this here).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Oh, and there is the argument that technology and magic are antagonist. Why should it be this way ? The&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; only reason I've found is that people don't like mixing magic and science and so declare that you can't have&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; both, but it's arbitrary.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Finally, I would emphasize some points. Except for the savage Spriggans, gnomes are NG. I doubt they&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; would associate with the Moonsea cities. I doubt any non-human race will associate with Hillsfar.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; As I see things, Gnomes will create industrial device with magical cleaner to prevent pollution (because&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Gnomes are GOOD and don't want to cause grave troubles) and everyone will be happy of being able to use&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; those so safe trains and planes to travel, rather than be exposed to the harshness of the element, the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; brutality of the maraudings bandits, the length of the journey...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; But the gnomes you describe, Edena, seems to have a LE WoD-technocatric behavior, and associate with all&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Evil countries and organizations against all goods. Strange.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [This message has been edited by Gez (edited 04-04-2001).]24&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tyrion&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 08:58 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I have trouble seeing how this sort of Industrial Revolution could ever take place in a fantasy realm...the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gnomes would be smacked down soon after they tried to expand. The smart ones of their race wouldn't&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; even bother. Here's why:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1) What's the point of railways? Instead of the immense cost and time of setting up a railroad network over&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the countryside, just have some high-level mages create permanent teleportation circles where you need&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; them.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2) The gnomes want to develop more mines. Where do they find these mines that have not been already&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; exploited by another faction?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I think, however, that a consumer society and mass-production could possibly occur, although they would be&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; radically different than our modern view of these concepts. Magic does everything the society needs, and in&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; most cases better than technology.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tyrion25&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; bondetamp&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 09:55 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The thing is that even if an industrial revolution on Torill would damage the environment, no one but a very&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; few extremists would notice until it was far too late to stop it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -bondetamp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -but you may call me sir.&nbsp; &nbsp; This topic is 16 pages&nbsp; &nbsp; long:&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 5&nbsp; 6&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 8&nbsp; 9&nbsp; 10&nbsp; 11&nbsp; 12&nbsp; 13&nbsp; 14&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 16 &nbsp; &nbsp; All times are Central Time (US)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This is an ARCHIVED topic. You may not reply to it!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hop to:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Contact Us | D&amp;D 3rd Edition News &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47b&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Note: This is an archived topic. It is read-only.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; D&amp;D 3rd Edition News Board &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Other Archived Stuff &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution? (Page 2) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; profile | register | preferences | faq | search &nbsp; &nbsp; This topic is 16 pages long:&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 5&nbsp; 6&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 8&nbsp; 9&nbsp; 10&nbsp; 11&nbsp; 12&nbsp; 13&nbsp; 14&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 16 &nbsp; &nbsp; This topic was originally posted in this forum: General RPG Discussion&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Author &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Topic:&nbsp;&nbsp; What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution? 26&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ColonelHardisson&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 10:13 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Again, tangentially...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; In my campaign world, Dwarves are the guys into heavy machinery. They'd be the ones to build railways&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; because they already use them in the mines for their ore carts, and a railroad across the land would give&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; them quick and easy access to consumers who would buy their consumer goods.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Halflings IMC are not the race of thieves or pseudo-kender of modern D&amp;D; they're more like a cross&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; between Tolkien's Hobbits and D&amp;D halflings, with a large dollop of honesty and practicality thrown in. More&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; like Merry and Pippin in &quot;The Scouring of the Shire&quot; than Bilbo at the beginning of &quot;An Unexpected Party.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They still like creature comforts, and have invented a lot of labor-saving items. They even have&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lawnmowers, toilets, and street lights. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ?Illegitimis non carborundum.?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -Gen. Joseph Stilwell27&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CarpeDM&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 10:45 AM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; quote:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Originally posted by ColonelHardisson:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tangentially...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the &quot;technological&quot; race of&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D&amp;D? I mean, I know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; out into the universe via Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, the only real hook that 1st edition gnomes had was that they were into practical jokes and were decent&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; illusionists. This didn't fit in with Weis and Hickman's view of Krynn (humans and elves did all the magic,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kender were the pranksters), so they looked for another idea. Mad scientist inventors was what they came&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; up with, and for whatever reason that's what we're stuck with.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, Dwarves in the DragonLance modules were no slouches in the engineering business (the big&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; difference being that Dwarf machines actually worked). The Dwarf kingdom in one of the early modules&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (Thorbardin? Don't have my books handy) includes some pretty out-there technology. But Dwarves also&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; have the &quot;doomed society of warriors&quot; hook, so their technological accomplishments were eventually&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; downplayed. The DragonLance portrayal of Kender and Tinker Gnomes was so popular that 3rd edition made&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; it canon.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; In my campaign, Gnomes have always been kind of a cross between Dwarves and Elves - they have an&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Elf-like appreciation for nature, combined with the Dwarf work ethic. They're not very technological at all; the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dwarves are the clear leaders in that respect, and they're not interested in exporting their discoveries. The&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dwarves have the technology to start industrial revolution-style change (or at least are close to it), but their&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; focus on individual craftsmanship means they're not interested in mass production techniques. And since&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; they're not likely to export their secrets, other cultures aren't even aware that the technology exists.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; My gnomes, OTOH, are very much in tune with nature and magic (to them, they're the same thing). Absent&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; some other influence, they tend to form semi-nomadic cultures. In the more civilized areas of my world,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; they tend to live in symbiosis with Dwarf or Elf cultures (sometimes both) rather than separate nations.28&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Estlor&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 01:01 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well on Mystara gnomes always were big into technology. However, for the most part that was always geared&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; towards better smithing techniques, better preservation of shiny things.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; THEN one of them discovered a Blackmoor anti-gravity drive pod.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; As you can imagine, holy hell broke loose for the better part of a thousand plus years until the gnomes built&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; that bad boy into a flying city complete with biplane defense fighters.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; But I digress.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Assuming I was in Toril playing the elven bard Estlor, I would use my influence to get as many elves behind&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; me and decree the technomancy of the gnomes to be a profoundly wicked belief. Using the considerable&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; magic reserves of the elves, I'd fortify the forest against the intrusion of non-elves and technomancers such&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; that when the rest of the world has forgotten magic and embraced industry there will still be a corner of the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; world that holds on to the old ways.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And lord help them when they have lost all their magic and the elves decide it's time to stop hiding&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Lighthouse Webmaster&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;More conversions, less talk.&quot;29&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wayne Ligon&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 01:57 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; quote:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Originally posted by Gez:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; either &quot;wow, that's cool&quot; or &quot;why making brutish and bristle machine when magic can achieve&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the same effect more rapidly, comfortably and efficiently ?&quot;.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Because to use that machine requires, at most, a week or so of training - if that - whereas magic takes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; months or years to learn. And depending on the world you're running, maybe all people cannot USE magic,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; period. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; God created Man, but Sam Colt made 'em equal.30&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Victim&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 01:59 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; One of my characters takes a rather keen interest in new technology. He'd be forwarned.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Initial trials would be watched. Assuming the gnome designs don't destroy themselves, sabotage would be&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; employed. The design notes would be subtlely altered to make designs that would work into death traps,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; leading the gnomes to cease studying valid solutions.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Meanwhile, my character would then publicly declare support for the inventions while they were at an early&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; stage. Not only would this possibly discredit the inventions as unrealistic expectations develop and people&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; are let down, but this would alert other people who might not grasp the implications. Like the Harpers. Even&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; though I wouldn't want the Harpers to be my allies in game of Diplomacy and don't trust them to fight or&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; plot their way out of paper sack, they could still be rather annoying.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then we find some Zhent bastards, kill or capture them and take their stuff, especially any prominent&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; symbols and such. Now we disguises.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now the Zhentarim (see above) begin raiding temples of Gond (I assume that the Wonderbringer's temples&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; would be focal points for the industry). Liberal use of disentategrate destroys prototypes and technical&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; knowledge. Things that were built would be teleported to the vicinity of Zhent strongholds. Of course,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; appropriate precautions against divination magic would be taken. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; My character would get some mages to learn how to conjure rust monsters and help design spells that used&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; acids or sonics to wreck machines. However, he still claims support the gnomes and advocates harsh&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; retalitory measures against Zhentarim. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Just to spice things up, a reverse engineered and refined steam powered warmachine would be teleported&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; from the Citadel of the Raven (getting in would be tough but not impossible) to the headquarters of this&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; attempt to destroy the realms, probably Lantan.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now everyone can play in the techie vs. Zhent war. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Under constant assualt from the druids, harpers, probably a some other power groups and now the powerful&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; mages of the Zhentarim, the Industrial coalition should be overwhelmed. In the process, however, both the&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Zhents and Harpers would be extremly weakened. Hopefully, the Zhents would gone down in flames.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, so far no one has taken divine intervention into account. Other gods might get upset at situation&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; that would send Gond's power beyond all the other gods put together.31&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Edena_of_Neith&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Member &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; posted 04-04-2001 10:08 PM&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I have looked at the Posts on this Thread.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I have evaluated their quality.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And I have come to the inevitable conclusion that:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Gnomish Industrial Revolution is stopped! &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Victory for the elves, druids, and the mages in the shadows!32</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 1302654, member: 2020"] Edena_of_Neith here. This thread is meant to be a repost, in totality, of the 1st IR and the 2nd IR. This is it. All of it, from beginning to end. I broke the 1st IR down into a number of folders, for the sake of manageable bookkeeping, and committed these folders to my permanent records. I still have all the folders in storage today, and I will copy them onto this thread. Thus, the totality of the 1st IR will be here for all who wish to see it. The three folders titled Thread One of the 1st IR, Forrester's Intermediate Thread of the 1st IR, and Thread Two of the 1st IR, contain the main story therein. These three folders contain the core material of the 1st IR. These three folders will be presented in the order given above, on pages 1 and 2 of this thread. There are a number of folders with additional material related to the 1st IR. They are: Darwin's Panic Thread, Riot Gear's Open Letter to Edena Thread, Draco's Eric Come Here Thread, Balor's About the IR Thread, Bugaboo's Restarting Thread, Psionicist's What About Thread, Aloisius's What If Thread, Riot Gear's Warriors Thread, Psionicist's Don't Worry Thread, Broken Fang's Technology Thread, Draco's History of Toril Thread, Psionicist's Magicpunk Thread, Riot Gear's War of the Month of Terror Thread, Syklone's If the Gnomes Thread, Teflon's Chaff Thread, and Charwoman Gene's Attack Thread. This additional (and smaller) folders will be presented in the order given above. (The SECOND IR begins on page 4.) I will begin with the first folder, titled Thread One of the 1st IR. Due to the limitations of the ENBoards, I have broken this folder down into 9 posts. Each post is marked by number. So read, and enjoy. Here is the 1st IR. - - - (1ST POST) THREAD ONE OF THE FIRST IR Note: This is an archived topic. It is read-only. D&D 3rd Edition News Board Other Archived Stuff What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution? (Page 1) UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! profile | register | preferences | faq | search This topic is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 This topic was originally posted in this forum: General RPG Discussion Author Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution? Edena_of_Neith Member posted 04-03-2001 11:13 PM This is meant semi-humorously. Your world awakens to a new reality. Gnomes have invented steam power. They have invented the Consumer Society. Suddenly, smokestacks start going up in the gnomish country. Industry appears. The land is a din of pounding hammers and thunderous booms as machines and factories spring up. The first railroad is built, and the horseless carriage carries trainloads of gnomes to and from the great mines where black coal is scooped up in vast quantities to fuel the growing revolution. Now, the gnomes start building railroads into neighboring countries, bribing the governments, cutting deals, making treaties. The gnomes want to dig new mines. The gnomes want to build factories in your city. The gnomes want vast number of changes and upgrades to your local area. Let's say this occurs in Toril. The gnomes have converted Amn and Tethyr. They are working on Waterdeep and the Lord's Alliance. They have emissaries to Luruar. They are cutting deals with the Red Wizards, with the cities of the Moonsea, with Westgate. Mulhorand and Chessenta are taking a look. Negotiations have begun in Thesk and Aglarond. What would your characters - let us assume they are extremely high level, 25th or so - do? 2 Diarnothe Member posted 04-03-2001 11:19 PM Never mind what a PC would do. Every @(&!*@@ druid in the realms is going to come down on this like call lightning on an iron golem.... (and maybe just as effectual too) 3 Edena_of_Neith Member posted 04-03-2001 11:33 PM Well, of course, the gnomes immediately put out the call that extremists are attacking, endangering lives and wrecking public property. The gnomes put out the call to all good adventurers to put a stop to these marauding druids. Meanwhile, the smokestacks keep going up. The air becomes polluted and difficult to breath in the cities of Amn and Tethyr. The gnomes shoot and destroy all the monsters found in their territory, wiping out entire species. The iron horse (railroad) makes this easy to do. This is done for the good of society, claim the gnomes. 4 Amrynn_Moonshadow Member posted 04-03-2001 11:49 PM i guess i'd spelljam myself and my loved ones off of toril . . . providing i could get hooked up with the starwing fleet defenders of evermeet . . . or something like that. i don't know . . . kiss my elven butt goodbye? ------------------ ------------------- "Never anger an elf, we have very long memories." ~Amrynn Moonshadow 5 Edena_of_Neith Member posted 04-03-2001 11:54 PM You do realize, don't you, that the Elven Imperial Navy refuses to involve itself with the affairs of surface elves on Toril? Except, obviously, for Evermeet. Yet even there, they did not come to Evermeet's aid when Kymil Nemesin attacked them. Therefore, you cannot abandon Toril in this manner. The gnomes invite all elves to join them in their new progressive revolution. They propose a vast industrial complex in Leuthilspar to produce metal items. One of Leuthilspar's great parks can be sacrificed for this purpose, so no elven homes will have to be, say the gnomes. The gnomes propose clearing a way through the elven forests for an Evermeet railroad, the timber to be used to build elven ships. New and improved ships of the gnome's design. The gnomes advocate the cannon as an effective harbor defense for Leuthilspar. They feel ironworks should be set up, so that Leuthilspar can produce it's own arsenal of firearms, cannon, and great Ironbacks (armored ships.) Some of the nations of Toril are receptive to the proposals of the gnomes. Others are mulling it over. Yet others are uninterested. Your characters could make the difference. What do you do? 6 bondetamp Member posted 04-04-2001 12:07 AM I would start a labour union. ------------------ -bondetamp -but you may call me sir. 7 GuardianLurker Member posted 04-04-2001 12:24 AM quote: Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith: Your characters could make the difference. What do you do? Well, that depends. If I'm playing the 25th level Archmage Gadgeteer, I cash in. If I'm playing the curmudgeon ex-adventuring Fighter, "What was good enough for Granpappy is good enough for me.", I complain a lot. If I'm the tree-hugging druid, I get together with a bunch of my brethern and demonstrate exactly how damaging the reality behind the words "hurricane", "tornado", "earthquake", "flood", etc. can be to a primitive industrial society. If I'm the inquisitive Bard, I investigate to find out what caused this sudden change in the Gnome's Behavior - surely some form of unearthly demonic magic must be behind it. If I'm the wise Cleric, I gather together a group of young adventurers and send them on a quest to discover why the Gnomish Gods are permitting this, while I try to establish treaties and agreements that will halt the gnomish advance. (And thanks to magic, a binding agreement takes on a whole new meaning.) The Barbarian (and hir horde) sack a few gnomish industrial towns, then blow the gold in the world's biggest party. If I'm the reclusive sorceror, I enhance my aeries' defenses, and blow up anything that even comes near me. If I'm the sneaky Rouge swindler, I swindle the gnomes looking for trading partners, the non-gnomes looking to cash in, and anyone else (because you can't leave a mark unfleeced). And I spend even more time running away. The Paladin starts training for the apocalyptic battle he is sure is coming. And the Monk retires to the monastery to contemplate the changes life brings. And if I'm a member of that adventuring party, I have a wild and wonderous journey through all the planes of existence to find out the answer. ------------------ GuardianLurker Be seeing you. 8 Volaran the Blue Member posted 04-04-2001 01:01 AM FInd one of these oh so spiffy portals Toril is riddled with and get off the planet. The industrial revolution has happened elsewhere with little effect on the planes...even Mechanus is relatively clean in its industry. ------------------ "Those who call adventurers the most foolish souls alive have never encountered a planewalker." -Volaran the Blue, Archmage of the Singing Caverns [This message has been edited by Volaran the Blue (edited 04-04-2001).] 9 Masked Member posted 04-04-2001 01:11 AM I for one would realize the gnomes must be stopped. There is only one thing that can come of this ... Final Fantasy 7+ The gnomes must be stopped no matter what the cost. -Maskedimus Prime ColonelHardisson Member posted 04-04-2001 01:41 AM Tangentially... How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the "technological" race of D&D? I mean, I know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded out into the universe via Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes? Dwarves have always seemed more technologically inclined in D&D, what with Dwarven-designed forges and great stonework and cleverly designed doors and traps seeming to appear in a lot of adventures. The Greyhawk 2000 article in Dragon recently also posits that the Dwarves would be the leaders in technological know-how. I just don't get where the gnomes became the default tech race. And Tinker Gnomes are an abomination. Sorry; it needed saying. The only two races more annoying are kender and gully dwarves. Re: the question. The PCs wouldn't do much, except for any druids or maybe rangers and other wilderness-oriented characters - and even these would probably do more "monitoring" than anything else. If things were getting polluted, the druids would likely meet with the gnomes, discuss the problem, and try to come up with mundane and magical ways to eliminate the transmission of pollution. I imagine some might be radical, and resort to violent means, but eventually they'd be brushed aside - there really aren't that many druids running around in the first place. I'd like to know why this is on your mind. Is it a campaign idea that you're about to implement, or have already implemented? By the way, I think the dwarves would eventually simply shove the gnomes aside and become the real technological force i the world. It suits them more. ------------------ ?Illegitimis non carborundum.? -Gen. Joseph Stilwell 11 LostSoul Member posted 04-04-2001 01:46 AM quote: Originally posted by bondetamp: I would start a labour union. Ya beat me to it. I would go around supporting the rights of the workers, promoting freedom and equality and other utopian causes, all the while changing the social structure to benefit ME. Then I would take my legions of conscripted soldiers with mass-produced weapons and conquer the WORLD! HAHAHAHAHAHA! 12 PrivateerMatt Member posted 04-04-2001 03:31 AM Colonel H, You beat me to it! I have always wondered about that too. OK, the DL books were good, and *at the time* I really liked the spin they put on gnomes. But here's my dirty little secret -- I don't like how that notion has invaded the rest of fantasy gaming. It's not just D&D, either. I'm sure a lot of you here have played EverQuest, where this gnome tinkerer bit is taken to an extreme. I'm sure there are other examples out there too. Anyway, glad I found a kindred spirit on that topic. Hey, why didn't the kender take off like gnomes did? IMHO they are a much more interesting race. But that's another thread. (By the way, there are no gnomes in the Iron Kingdoms. Not that you can't play 'em... but they aren't part of the material we are producing. Nothing personal, we just wanted to do things differently.) - Matt ------------------ Matt Staroscik * Privateer Press * [url]http://privateerpress.com/[/url] 13 Edena_of_Neith Member posted 04-04-2001 04:51 AM Colonel Hardisson, just a humorous thing. Well now, it is obvious what happens next. Elminster, the Chosen, and the Harpers try to stop the gnomes covertly. The gnomes take their losses, then blow up Shadowdale. World War is then declared, with Amn, Tethyr, Calimshan, Thay, Zhentil Keep, Mulmaster, Thesk, Mulhorand, and Chessenta on one side, and Waterdeep, the Lord's Alliance, Westgate, Luruar and it's 8 cities, Rashemen, Aglarond, Cormyr, and the Harpers and Chosen on the other side. Sembia is neutral, trading off of everyone, making huge money in the war business. This war wakes up and annoys the phaerimm, who had been sleeping under Anarouch. (There is a saying with hornets: If you can see them, you're too close ... ) The phaerimm burst through the ancient and collasping sharn wall, and go to war against everyone. The elves and dwarves, not yet caught in the holocaust going on, decide now is the time to regain their supremacy over the continent of Toril, which they held for millennia. They declare war on everyone, and the halflings join them. The Sharn had been sleeping deep under the earth. The phaerimm were their ancient enemies. Now the sharn come up to the surface and go to war against the phaerimm. In the Hordelands, the fierce peoples there look west at the mess, and also at the riches for plunder. They muster all their armies, and march west, and a new Tuigan invasion is begun. Up in space, the Neogi look down, and the Mind Flayers, and the Goblins, and they see plunder, and their fleets attack in force. Only to be met by the Elven Imperial Navy, which battles them in spectacular combats across the Torilian skies. Finally, the tumult wakes up the Tarrasque. (No more news comes from the world of Toril after this point) [This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-04-2001).] 14 Blood Jester Member posted 04-04-2001 05:05 AM quote: Originally posted by ColonelHardisson: Tangentially... How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the "technological" race of D&D? I mean, I know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded out into the universe via Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes? Dwarves have always seemed more technologically inclined in D&D, what with Dwarven-designed forges and great stonework and cleverly designed doors and traps seeming to appear in a lot of adventures. The Greyhawk 2000 article in Dragon recently also posits that the Dwarves would be the leaders in technological know-how. ...... By the way, I think the dwarves would eventually simply shove the gnomes aside and become the real technological force i the world. It suits them more. OPINION: -Dwarves: being much more conservative, would not rush madly into such a radical change in the ways of the world. -Gnomes: are more 'experimental'. -Dwarves: are more in tune with, and reverent of the earth (lower case), they love to mine, but would not strip mine, rape the land, or change its face frivolously. -Gnomes: ...not so much. -Dwarves: don't want to interact with all the other races willy-nilly, so why have extensive railroads? -Gnomes: what changed over there in the last week? ...and so on. (One possible answer to your query?) Blood Jester ------------------ Laugh 'til you die. 15 Blood Jester Member posted 04-04-2001 05:22 AM Now, what would my PC do? My Favorite, a Neutral Good Ranger/Cleric Wood Elf Specialty Priest of Solonor Thelandira? (2nd Ed.) Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage... This abomination against the lands MUST be stopped, the creatures of the lands MUST be protected. After one shot at reasoning (at most) force is not only acceptable, it is called for. And if excessive, rapid violence has been done to the land and the animals, SCR*W the reasoning, war has already been declared by the other side! My current character, a Lawful Neutral Wizard who worships Azuth: 1)Examine if magic is being used, if so learn about it. 2)Calculate the degree to which the natural balance of the world, and of the Weave is being affected. 3)Use various means to scry on the future, and the end results of this behavior. 4)Attempt to use any legal means to dissuade or stop the gnomes. 5)For the betterment of the world, the stability of the realms, and the preservation of the (much preferable) status quo, not to mention the ascendancy of magic...utilize whatever means available to eradicate the gnomish inventions, and lock away (if magical) or destroy (if non-magical) all knowledge of their 'technology'. Blood Jester Ashtal Member posted 04-04-2001 05:53 AM I'd say you'd have something akin to Castle Falkenstein, but that's just me. Ashtal - who has no gnomes in her campaign but has Dwarves with gunpowder in a rennaisance culture who brought both steel and a new sense of humanitarianism to the human people in my campaign. 17 Edena_of_Neith Member posted 04-04-2001 06:23 AM Blood Jester Wrote: Now, what would my PC do? My Favorite, a Neutral Good Ranger/Cleric Wood Elf Specialty Priest of Solonor Thelandira? (2nd Ed.) Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage... This abomination against the lands MUST be stopped, the creatures of the lands MUST be protected. After one shot at reasoning (at most) force is not only acceptable, it is called for. And if excessive, rapid violence has been done to the land and the animals, SCR*W the reasoning, war has already been declared by the other side! : ) The gnomes declare this character a vile outlaw! They are sending their best people after this extremist elf! Perhaps, say the gnomes, the elves should be excluded from ALL civilized lands, since they are barbarians who could not understand Progress if it struck them in the face! Blood Jester wrote: My current character, a Lawful Neutral Wizard who worships Azuth: 1)Examine if magic is being used, if so learn about it. The Answer: They are using magic, you would learn, although they do not realize it. 2)Calculate the degree to which the natural balance of the world, and of the Weave is being affected. The Answer: The natural balance of both Toril and the Weave are being altered. Being altered in ways that nobody can predict, although numerous Sages have tried to determine the outcome. The gnomes poo-poo the whole thing (that is, research to see if this is dangerous) as backwards thinking. Onward, upward! That is their motto. 3)Use various means to scry on the future, and the end results of this behavior. The Answer: There are many possible endings. Most of them bewildering beyond comprehension. Some of them show the world ending in flame. Some of them show the world filled with buildings that pierce the clouds. Most of them show gnomish inventions flying through the air, racing across the ground, strange lines hung in the air, the ground covered in strange grey stuff. Some of them show this great city, with all sorts of races walking by - mind flayers, orcs, kobolds, humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, even neogi with their umber hulk servants!, and they are paying no attention to each other, but hurrying down the grey ground amidst a jumble of gnomish machines, strange lights, towering buildings, and a tumult of noise. Where they are going, or what they are doing, cannot even be guessed. 4)Attempt to use any legal means to dissuade or stop the gnomes. The Answer: The gnomes refer you to their Complaints Department. Case 55. Section B, Article 235. You must go before an Arbitrator, and state your case. If the Arbitrator allows, this can be taken to Court. If you win your case in Court, the gnomes will consider your case before the Tethyr Circuit Court. If that Court is favorable, your case will be considered by the Tethyr supreme court. If the Tethyr supreme court agrees your case is reasonable, the High Court will take it up. If the High Court agrees your case is reasonable, the Gnomish Bureucracy will take up your issue, and - the gnomes proclaim - you will receive a reasonable judgment. The whole process shouldn't take more than 10 years. 5)For the betterment of the world, the stability of the realms, and the preservation of the (much preferable) status quo, not to mention the ascendancy of magic...utilize whatever means available to eradicate the gnomish inventions, and lock away (if magical) or destroy (if non-magical) all knowledge of their 'technology'. The Answer All foretellings show the status quo will be destroyed if the gnomes continue, or if any nation on the planet, period, decides to take up the gnomish path. And another nation is likely to take up the gnomish path, and soon, if the gnomes continue to do as they are doing. Some things get institutionalized, you see. [This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-04-2001).] 18 mastermind Member posted 04-04-2001 06:43 AM I would start a factory that produces Pokemon stuff. I'll become a millionaire!! ------------------ mastermind The Keeper of the Dungeon Dimension 19 Tsyr Member posted 04-04-2001 06:58 AM What would I do? I'd simply kill all the gnomes. Not like anyone actualy likes gnomes anyhow... *grins evily* Besides... railroads? Common... depending on the sub-race of gnomes, I might be doing the world a big favor killing them... with a network of railroads across the planet, it could be doomsday... 20 soldarin Member posted 04-04-2001 07:04 AM Wait anxiously for the first automobile, then buy one? :-) eatenmyeyes Member posted 04-04-2001 07:53 AM Wouldn't the rise of technology weaken magic? It was my understanding that the amount of each are inversely proportional to each other and that magic varied depending on the level of tech. Thus, wizards who knew this would try to stop them. 22 drothgery Member posted 04-04-2001 08:15 AM My PC, presumably a high-level wizard on any world other than Toril (and so a mid-level wizard on Toril), would research the a magical item that, when placed on top of smokestacks, magically filters out the pollutants. He'd then make a fortune selling them to gnomes. ------------------ Dave Rothgery Picking nits since 1976 [This message has been edited by drothgery (edited 04-04-2001).] 23 Gez Member posted 04-04-2001 08:16 AM It seems people just don't realize that concerns like "ecology" and "pollution" were just unknown when the actual Industrial Revolution happened IRL. If you go back in time in the 19th century and say to people "steam engine are dangerous! you will pollute the air, you will all be sick, and the atmosphere will be warmed, and we will all be flooded!" people will think you're some sort of idiotic mystic doomsayer and will discard you and your arguments. Hell, nowadays, even someone as responsible and reasonnable as the leader of the One Hyperpower of the world estimate pollution isn't dangerous. Except for druids or rangers that could be upseted by a railroad coming through her beloved forest, reaction would be either "wow, that's cool" or "why making brutish and bristle machine when magic can achieve the same effect more rapidly, comfortably and efficiently ?". Now, given I *do* know in character, not in metagame thinking, that industry is dangerous, what would I do ? Clean. Gnomes have an innate knwack for magic, and it should be fairly easy for them to learn spells like "Purify Air". You see, with magic items, it is really easy to avoid pollution. Some circlet of Transmute Smock to Air could be put on top of chimney, for example. You could gather toxins and industrial waste in a place, and when you have enough, ship them to a center where a Sphere of Disruption will destroy it forever. Even nuclear wastes are of no danger when you can simply banish them forever in the Nowhere. About specy extinctions: a D&D world has an incredible bio-diversity, and I think some species could be extincted for the good of all. Notably, several Aberrations, Drow elves, Tinker gnomes, Gully dwarves, and Kender halflings. Tsyr: What have you against railroads ? In my books, automobile are more doomsday-triggerers than trains. Cars pollute more, takes more places, provoke more accidents, and are one possible cause for obesity (I won't expand this here). Oh, and there is the argument that technology and magic are antagonist. Why should it be this way ? The only reason I've found is that people don't like mixing magic and science and so declare that you can't have both, but it's arbitrary. Finally, I would emphasize some points. Except for the savage Spriggans, gnomes are NG. I doubt they would associate with the Moonsea cities. I doubt any non-human race will associate with Hillsfar. As I see things, Gnomes will create industrial device with magical cleaner to prevent pollution (because Gnomes are GOOD and don't want to cause grave troubles) and everyone will be happy of being able to use those so safe trains and planes to travel, rather than be exposed to the harshness of the element, the brutality of the maraudings bandits, the length of the journey... But the gnomes you describe, Edena, seems to have a LE WoD-technocatric behavior, and associate with all Evil countries and organizations against all goods. Strange. [This message has been edited by Gez (edited 04-04-2001).] 24 Tyrion Member posted 04-04-2001 08:58 AM I have trouble seeing how this sort of Industrial Revolution could ever take place in a fantasy realm...the gnomes would be smacked down soon after they tried to expand. The smart ones of their race wouldn't even bother. Here's why: 1) What's the point of railways? Instead of the immense cost and time of setting up a railroad network over the countryside, just have some high-level mages create permanent teleportation circles where you need them. 2) The gnomes want to develop more mines. Where do they find these mines that have not been already exploited by another faction? I think, however, that a consumer society and mass-production could possibly occur, although they would be radically different than our modern view of these concepts. Magic does everything the society needs, and in most cases better than technology. ------------------ Tyrion 25 bondetamp Member posted 04-04-2001 09:55 AM The thing is that even if an industrial revolution on Torill would damage the environment, no one but a very few extremists would notice until it was far too late to stop it. ------------------ -bondetamp -but you may call me sir. This topic is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 All times are Central Time (US) This is an ARCHIVED topic. You may not reply to it! Hop to: Contact Us | D&D 3rd Edition News Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47b Note: This is an archived topic. It is read-only. D&D 3rd Edition News Board Other Archived Stuff What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution? (Page 2) UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! profile | register | preferences | faq | search This topic is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 This topic was originally posted in this forum: General RPG Discussion Author Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution? 26 ColonelHardisson Member posted 04-04-2001 10:13 AM Again, tangentially... In my campaign world, Dwarves are the guys into heavy machinery. They'd be the ones to build railways because they already use them in the mines for their ore carts, and a railroad across the land would give them quick and easy access to consumers who would buy their consumer goods. Halflings IMC are not the race of thieves or pseudo-kender of modern D&D; they're more like a cross between Tolkien's Hobbits and D&D halflings, with a large dollop of honesty and practicality thrown in. More like Merry and Pippin in "The Scouring of the Shire" than Bilbo at the beginning of "An Unexpected Party." They still like creature comforts, and have invented a lot of labor-saving items. They even have lawnmowers, toilets, and street lights. ------------------ ?Illegitimis non carborundum.? -Gen. Joseph Stilwell 27 CarpeDM Member posted 04-04-2001 10:45 AM quote: Originally posted by ColonelHardisson: Tangentially... How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the "technological" race of D&D? I mean, I know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded out into the universe via Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes? Well, the only real hook that 1st edition gnomes had was that they were into practical jokes and were decent illusionists. This didn't fit in with Weis and Hickman's view of Krynn (humans and elves did all the magic, Kender were the pranksters), so they looked for another idea. Mad scientist inventors was what they came up with, and for whatever reason that's what we're stuck with. Of course, Dwarves in the DragonLance modules were no slouches in the engineering business (the big difference being that Dwarf machines actually worked). The Dwarf kingdom in one of the early modules (Thorbardin? Don't have my books handy) includes some pretty out-there technology. But Dwarves also have the "doomed society of warriors" hook, so their technological accomplishments were eventually downplayed. The DragonLance portrayal of Kender and Tinker Gnomes was so popular that 3rd edition made it canon. In my campaign, Gnomes have always been kind of a cross between Dwarves and Elves - they have an Elf-like appreciation for nature, combined with the Dwarf work ethic. They're not very technological at all; the Dwarves are the clear leaders in that respect, and they're not interested in exporting their discoveries. The Dwarves have the technology to start industrial revolution-style change (or at least are close to it), but their focus on individual craftsmanship means they're not interested in mass production techniques. And since they're not likely to export their secrets, other cultures aren't even aware that the technology exists. My gnomes, OTOH, are very much in tune with nature and magic (to them, they're the same thing). Absent some other influence, they tend to form semi-nomadic cultures. In the more civilized areas of my world, they tend to live in symbiosis with Dwarf or Elf cultures (sometimes both) rather than separate nations. 28 Estlor Member posted 04-04-2001 01:01 PM Well on Mystara gnomes always were big into technology. However, for the most part that was always geared towards better smithing techniques, better preservation of shiny things. THEN one of them discovered a Blackmoor anti-gravity drive pod. As you can imagine, holy hell broke loose for the better part of a thousand plus years until the gnomes built that bad boy into a flying city complete with biplane defense fighters. But I digress. Assuming I was in Toril playing the elven bard Estlor, I would use my influence to get as many elves behind me and decree the technomancy of the gnomes to be a profoundly wicked belief. Using the considerable magic reserves of the elves, I'd fortify the forest against the intrusion of non-elves and technomancers such that when the rest of the world has forgotten magic and embraced industry there will still be a corner of the world that holds on to the old ways. And lord help them when they have lost all their magic and the elves decide it's time to stop hiding ------------------ The Lighthouse Webmaster "More conversions, less talk." 29 Wayne Ligon Member posted 04-04-2001 01:57 PM quote: Originally posted by Gez: either "wow, that's cool" or "why making brutish and bristle machine when magic can achieve the same effect more rapidly, comfortably and efficiently ?". Because to use that machine requires, at most, a week or so of training - if that - whereas magic takes months or years to learn. And depending on the world you're running, maybe all people cannot USE magic, period. God created Man, but Sam Colt made 'em equal. 30 Victim Member posted 04-04-2001 01:59 PM One of my characters takes a rather keen interest in new technology. He'd be forwarned. Initial trials would be watched. Assuming the gnome designs don't destroy themselves, sabotage would be employed. The design notes would be subtlely altered to make designs that would work into death traps, leading the gnomes to cease studying valid solutions. Meanwhile, my character would then publicly declare support for the inventions while they were at an early stage. Not only would this possibly discredit the inventions as unrealistic expectations develop and people are let down, but this would alert other people who might not grasp the implications. Like the Harpers. Even though I wouldn't want the Harpers to be my allies in game of Diplomacy and don't trust them to fight or plot their way out of paper sack, they could still be rather annoying. Then we find some Zhent bastards, kill or capture them and take their stuff, especially any prominent symbols and such. Now we disguises. Now the Zhentarim (see above) begin raiding temples of Gond (I assume that the Wonderbringer's temples would be focal points for the industry). Liberal use of disentategrate destroys prototypes and technical knowledge. Things that were built would be teleported to the vicinity of Zhent strongholds. Of course, appropriate precautions against divination magic would be taken. My character would get some mages to learn how to conjure rust monsters and help design spells that used acids or sonics to wreck machines. However, he still claims support the gnomes and advocates harsh retalitory measures against Zhentarim. Just to spice things up, a reverse engineered and refined steam powered warmachine would be teleported from the Citadel of the Raven (getting in would be tough but not impossible) to the headquarters of this attempt to destroy the realms, probably Lantan. Now everyone can play in the techie vs. Zhent war. Under constant assualt from the druids, harpers, probably a some other power groups and now the powerful mages of the Zhentarim, the Industrial coalition should be overwhelmed. In the process, however, both the Zhents and Harpers would be extremly weakened. Hopefully, the Zhents would gone down in flames. Of course, so far no one has taken divine intervention into account. Other gods might get upset at situation that would send Gond's power beyond all the other gods put together. 31 Edena_of_Neith Member posted 04-04-2001 10:08 PM I have looked at the Posts on this Thread. I have evaluated their quality. And I have come to the inevitable conclusion that: The Gnomish Industrial Revolution is stopped! Victory for the elves, druids, and the mages in the shadows! 32 [/QUOTE]

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