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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sylrae" data-source="post: 5234058" data-attributes="member: 48520">Well, I like your draft two a hell of alot more than draft one. Its starting to be a unique class, worthwhile of taking. I'm going to critique it now, and point out the areas that need more work. I'm not sure I like the distinction between celtic and nonceltic weapons in terms of weapon proficiencies. If it's a unique weapon, I'd just add it to the appropriate weapon group. If you want a more specific list of availabl weapons, list them all separately, but don't do what I saw below, where you mention pictish bastard sword. Let them use any bastard sword in that situation. If you want to use the cultural names, list them like this Katana(Masterwork Bastard Sword). Try not to make the huge distinctions between one culture's weapons and another similar weapon in another country. If i can use a Chinese glaive, I should be sufficiently trained to handle a Japanese glaive, and I should be sufficiently trained to handle a European glaive. Moreover, unless there's a big difference between them, they shouldn't have separate statblocks.Having a list of weapons that you place in the celtic category, with the celtic names, and then having a list of the weapons they are the same as from the core book is a good Idea though.Here's an example from 3.5.The Cutlass and Saber are not listed in the PHB. I've seen people rule that a saber functions as a rapier, but I never liked that option much.The best writeup for a Cutlass I've seen was basically like this:As rapier, with the following exceptions.Price: 20gpWeight: 3lbs+2 vs. Disarm attempts made to disarm the wielder of the Cutlass.A Cutlass does either Slashing OR Piercing damage.The best writeup for a Saber I've seen was  like this:As longsword, with the following exceptions.Price: 20gpWeight: 4lbs+2 vs. Disarm attempts made to disarm the wielder of the Saber.A Saber does either Slashing OR Piercing damage.They may or may not have had their own statblock, I can't remember. But unless there's a big reason the weapon functions differently (Different blade purpose and different type of handguard), then you should just go the route of: Claymore(Greatsword).If everything is written to depend on the weird style of weapon proficiencies, it may or may not be enough to deter someone from getting the book. To me it would lower the value of the book/pdf. Book Sales Advice/Aside:[spoiler]Many people look through an RPG book before deciding to buy it. Most of the gamers I know go out and get pirated pdfs of a game before they decide to buy it if they can't look through it in the local gaming store. Having things that are highly useable, and highly adaptable to other settings, will be a big deciding factor for people on buying the pdf or hardcover. I also know quite a few gamers who won't pay for a pdf, but are willing to fork up the money for the printed copy. If you're going for sales, having a printed copy available is important, even if its a print on demand type thing. If you don't have printed copies, make the pdfs affordable (cheap even).[/spoiler]Is this like a paladin's code of conduct? What do they lose if they don't follow it? what if they have a good reason to not follow it in some extreme circumstance? Are there magical ramifications like with the Paladin? If not, then you should probably list it, and just list the usual code of conduct for the different clan's warriors, and don't list it in the class entry.I'd say list this outside the class listing. Make the class listing as compatible with the existing classes as possible, or list it twice. Try not to have the class depend on too many mechanics that aren't either specific to the class or a core mechanic. Are you making Glory requirements for every class?Okay, I'll deal with the individual abilities. Filling in the blanks looks pretty good.They look okay. I think you could use a few more of them. Also, they already have weapon focus as an option (and they should), why would listing it again with a specific weapon be necessary? I don't like that they get for example "Gladio-Shortsword", so if they pick up another cultures shortsword, they're incompetent with it even though it's pretty much the same weapon. Also, if you go the route I mention above, of "Claymore(Greatsword)", I wouldn't list Claymore in the class entries, I'd list greatsword - unless you're going to list it with the brackets every time.I'd make it increase the shield bonus to AC, not add a deflection bonus. deflection bonuses apply against touch attacks, and they don't stack with other deflection bonuses. I'd make it directly lower the armor check penalty, instead of just armor check penalty for dexterity abilities.   Not bad. I think Evasion would have been cooler (using the shield to cover yourself in combination with dodging to take less damage), but not for level 2.I think you need to get this ability early on, like level 1 or 2. I'm not sure you should be using a shield for it though, as you're already increasing the AC you get from a shield (which is better than raising max-dex), this canny-defense type ability should be outside of shield training, and should be a dodgey ability like canny defense, but allowing medium armor and shields. Instead of max 1 int bonus per level though, slow it down to compensate for the higher armor allowed. They shouldn't have a higher AC than a heavily armored fighter.   Rephrasing to explain it's using the shield. I like it. I think maybe the Shield AC could be applied to the attack roll. Just a thought though.   Cool.If you're going to tie the code of conduct to anything, it's probably gotta be this. If they fall (Like a paladin), they would probably lose these abilities. Just thinking.I'm not sure how big of a deal the portal and path abilities will be. Detect glamour needs to be better defined in spell terms, and Sense Fey should probably work closer to how detect the faithful /detect good/detect evil works. I don't think the title or the first ability fit very well with the others, and as humans, they probably won't have a swim speed that can be doubled...I'd seperate Stealth and Mobility, and give them Stealth Automatically instead of making them pick it. I'm not sure I'd give them mobility and spring attack, and I think HIPS needs to have level restrictions, as it's a powerful ability. Animal Companion and Wild Empathy should be seperate choices. Thematically Animal Companion should be automatic for these guys I would think.. Maybe not. How often can they use Invisibility to Animals, any duration limits, etc... Companion's Eye: What type of action is it? (I'd make it a standard action with concentration to maintain). Call of the Wild: This is basically a supercharged 2e summon spell. Make it closer to the mechanics of Summon Nature's Ally, or give them summon Nature's ally with rates comparable to the Summoner Class. Instead of appearing, they come from the wilderness, but within the limits of the Summon Nature's Ally spell. Give them the 1d4 rounds time to show up, and then increase the duration to like, a minute or something. At the end of which they leave.These are good Ideas. I would include more of them. I would also tie the code of conduct in with them more closely, like a paladin's code of conduct, but I'd have each type of ancestral line have different codes of conduct, all fitting within celtic culture and train of thought better.If you included non-celtic ancestral lines, you could include similar fighters from other cultures later - Maybe Persian themed shield specialists, with a different weapon selection and different family lines. Hell, greek themed ones could work too.That's pretty limited. Why not make it: Favored Enemy (Enemy Organization) like the Urban Ranger got in UA. They could pick an enemy tribe, but they could also pick the Romans. Or whatever other enemy nations you include.This is really weak for a capstone ability. All it does is remove what little remaining penalty you have on the tower shield. Compare it to Armor Mastery (Fighter) which is much nicer, or any capstone ability from Pathfinder Core.It's a step in the right direction, but needs some further revision to be worth using. I'd recommend designing it in such a way that the class could be played by members of other cultures easier, so it could see use in other settings.It's getting better. Some of the things aren't the best Choices, but still pretty good.Of course, this doesn't say the class is the right power level. Some of those abilities are clearly superior to the other ones listed, but we may as well make it appealing, and THEN tone it back to the right power level. it's much easier than the other way aroundHere's an attempt to revamp that above draft.Clan Warrior (Draft 2A)  HD: d10  BAB: As Fighter  Saves: As Fighter  Skills: 4 + Intelligence modifier; Acrobatics, Climb, Craft,  Handle Animal, Intimidation, Knowledge (nature), Perception, Ride,  Survival, Swim     1st Clan Focus, Ancestral Lineage Marking, Canny Defense  2nd Shield Training 1  3rd Ancestral Lineage Power4th Favored Enemy (one Celtic clan)  5th Clan Focus  6th Shield Training 2  7th Ancestral Lineage Power  8th Favored Enemy  9th Clan Focus  10th Shield Training 3  11th Ancestral Lineage Power  12th Favored Enemy  13th Clan Focus  14th Shield Training 4  15th Ancestral Lineage Power  16th Favored Enemy  17th Clan Focus  18th Shield Training 5  19th Ancestral Lineage Power  20th Favored Enemy, Shield Mastery        Class Features:  Proficiencies: (Clan Warrior Celtic Weapon List), light armor,  Hide Armor and all shields  Celtic Weapons(Insert List f Weapons Here)     Clan Focus:  Clan Focus determines Additional Weapon Proficiencies, Gives two Bonus  Skill Focus Feats, and defines the bonus feat list which feats can be  chosen each time the Clan Focus ability is gained. There are five types  of clan focus.     The following feats are available to all Clan warriors, regardless of  focus (The Clan Warrior still must meet any prerequisites for the feat):  Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Penetrating Strike.     Druidic Focus:  Dwells near druidic learning centers and fey regions  Weapons: longspear, barbed spear  Skill Focus: Perception 1st; Knowledge (nature) 5th  Clan Feats: Improved Salmon Leap, Del Chliss, Improved Del Chliss,  Spear Kicking, Improved Spear Kicking.     Equine Focus:  Dwells in areas of plains and are breeders of excellent horses  Weapons: Light Lance, Falcata, Javelin  Skill Focus: Ride 1st; Handle Animal 5th  Clan Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample,  Unseat     Highlander Focus:  Dwells in highland regions  Weapons: Bastard Sword, Greatsword, War Sling  Skill Focus: Climb 1st; Knowledge (nature) 5th  Clan Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Vital Strike, Improved  Critical, Critical Focus      Pirate Focus:   Bonus Skill: Profession (sailor)  Dwells on coastal regions and islands   Weapons: Longspear, Any one from the Following List (X)  Skill Focus: Swim 1st; Profession (sailor) 5th  Clan Feats: Improved Salmon Leap, Deflect Arrows, Spear Catching, Del  Chliss     Smith Focus:  Located near iron-rich ore fields  Weapons: Shortsword, Longsword, Warhammer, Maul  Bonus Skill: Craft (Weaponsmithing), Craft (Armorsmithing)  Skill Focus: Craft (Weaponsmithing or Armorsmithing) 1st; Craft  (Weaponsmithing or Armorsmithing) 5th  Clan Feats: Shield Focus, Improved Shield Bash, Two Weapon Fighting,  Shield Slam, Shield Master     Canny Defense(Rename Me):   As the duelist ability, with the following changes:   - Can be used with Hide Armor.   - Can use a shield (except tower shields) with this ability.   - The maximum int bonus applied to AC increases by 1 for every two  levels of Clan Warrior.    Shield Training:  Because the clan warrior is limited to light armor, shields have  greater importance to clan warriors and training with them confers  better defense: at each level of acquisition, increase the shield’s  shield bonus by 1, and decrease the shield’s armor check penalty by 1.  At Each level of acquisition, the appropriate ability is gained from the  list below.     2nd level: Dodge6th level: Evasion, as the rogue ability.10th level: Shield Parry: using shield to Parry, as the Duelist class  feature.  14th level: Riposte: as per Duelist feature18th level: Elaborate Defense: as per Duelist featureAncestral Lineage Powers:Powers gained through a spiritual link with a clan ancestral hero.  Each  time it is gained, you gain one of the abilities in the list. Each  lineage has a Marking, which all with that lineage have.  Each lineage has its own code of conduct.   Fey Pathfinder:  Code of Conduct:  Fey Marking (Ex): An Invisible Fey who became invisible through an  innate ability (as opposed to through arcane or divine magic) is never  invisible to you.Sense Fey (Ex): As Detect Good, at will, except the ability detects  creatures with fey types and subtypes instead of detecting Good. You are  not vulnerable to an overwhelming fey aura. Detect Glamour (Ex): as an immediate action gain an automatic Will Save  against an innate illusion or compulsion ability (SLA, Ex, or Su) of a  creature with the fey type to disbelieve the illusion or negate the  compulsion effect, even if the ability does not offer a save, or you  already failed the save . The DC is equal to 10+1/2 EL of the Fey + the  Fey’s CHA Modifier. This ability can be used 3+ CHA Modifier times per  day.   Resist Nature's Lure (Ex): as per druid class featureFind Portal (Ex): locate any Fey Portals within 30' radiusFind Path (Ex): locate Fey Path to prevent being trapped in Fey entropy  Navigator:Code of Conduct:  Navigator Marking (Ex): On a clear night identify direction and date,  using constellations. This ability can be used at will, but takes 3  minutes to complete, and the Clan Warrior must be able to see the stars.?????     Water (New Name):  Code of Conduct:  Water Marked(Ex): Can hold their breath a numbr of rounds equal to 4x  their Constitution Score.  Deep Vision (Ex): as Darkvision, but only in underwater conditionsSeal Stride (Ex): Gain a swim speed of 40 Breath of Lyrr (Su): Water Breathing (as spell) but only 10  min/level/dayArms of Lyrr (Su): ????? as a Free Action (as spell) but only 10  min/levelRaider:Code of Conduct:  Raider Marking: Gain Stealth: as a bonus class skill  Mobility as a free bonus featFast Stealth as per rogue talentTreasure Spotter (Ex): immediate perception check within 10' of treasureSpring Attack: as a free bonus featHide in Plain Sight (Ex): as per ranger class feature</blockquote>I'd  seperate Stealth and Mobility, and give them Stealth Automatically  instead of making them pick it. I'm not sure I'd give them mobility and  spring attack, and I think HIPS needs to have level restrictions, as  it's a powerful ability.Worg:Code of Conduct:  Word Marking: Wild Empathy as per druid feature  Hunter's Bond (animal companion as per druid)  Woodland Stride: as per druid class featureInvisibility to Animals (Su): as spell, 3+Cha Mod times per dayCompanion's Eye: See through Companion's vision and line of sight.  Standard action, Duration: Concentration, at Will.Call of the Wild: As Summon Nature's Ally, 3+Cha Mod Times per Day, with  the following Exceptions: Fey, Outsiders, and Giants cannot be  summoned. Instead of appearing on your turn, they come from the  surrounding area, and arrive 1d4 rounds after the use of the ability.  The duration is 5 rounds/level, after which the animal will leave to go  back to where it came from. Its alignment changes to the default  alignment for creatures of its type, it no longer sees enemies as  hostile unless threatened by them, but still sees the Clan Warrior as  friendly unless it has a reason not to. Should the animal be killed  during the duration of the spell, it does not get sent back to where it  came from, it simply dies like any other animal of its kind. If there  are no animals of the chosen type within 1 mile, another animal (or  animals) come instead, but still within the limits of the Summon  Nature’s Ally Spell. The DM can add other animals to the list where  appropriate. The Summon Nature’s Ally spell number increases by 1 for  every 2 levels of  Clan Warrior. At Levels 19 and 20, a Clan Warrior  with this ability can summon 1d3 9th level creatures of the same kind,  or 1d4 lower level creatures of the same kind.Favored Enemy: as ranger class feature, but first selection must  be an enemy organization, enemy clan, or enemy country, following  guidelines of the Urban Ranger in Unearthed Arcana.     Armor Mastery: As Fighter (come up with something original to  put here).Ex- Clan Warriors:   A clan warrior who breaks their code of conduct loses all ancestral  lineage powers, and cannot advance as a Clan Warrior. Clan Warriors with  animal Companions lose the animal companions. Should they atone for  their wrongdoing (See the Atonement Spell), they regain their ancestral  lineage powers, and can then gain levels in Clan Warrior again.     Glory Requirements: Clan Warriors Must Maintain a Glory Rank 2  (Why? What happens if they don’t?)This has many blanks that need to be filled in, but I think  it shows what I'm trying to say for how to approach things.[/QUOTE]

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