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Iron DM 2009 - all matches
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<blockquote data-quote="Radiating Gnome" data-source="post: 4980606" data-attributes="member: 150"><p>We've got a couple of strong entries here -- each has strengths and weaknesses, which just means that the judging is going to be interesting. </p><p></p><p>Past Deeds (PD) is the tale of a dungeon crawl competition played out in a cavern below a tavern . . and that phrase in itself begs for a third "vern" in the mix . . . too bad there couldn't be a wyvern deep in the cavern under the tavern. Right, Vern? </p><p></p><p>Invisible tavern (IT). is a spoof of something awfully familiar, but manages to create an interesting adventure with new things to discover.</p><p></p><p>So, lets talk about ingredients. </p><p></p><p><strong>Invisible Tavern.</strong> I'm pretty sure no one thanked me for pulling this one out of a hat. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> In PD, the tavern is actually one of many entrances to the demiplane that is the host tavern to the contest. The tavern entrances are invisible, of course, so the PCs need a guide to find it. In IT, the PCs discover the tavern in the middle of the field -- and the invisible-ness of the tavern is a direct result of the forgetful apprentice. </p><p></p><p>Frankly, neither of these is all that great -- they feel like the invisible nature of the ingredient is shoe-horned into the adventure. THey both connect to other ingredients, but I find the connection in IT to be slightly stronger -- the invisible tavern as example of forgetfulness in the apprentice, rather than being the reason a faerie dragon is needed as a guide. So, advantage IT. </p><p></p><p><strong>Golden Zipper.</strong> In IT, the golden zipper is the analog of the snitch -- but it has it's own part to play in the checkerboard contest during the match. In PD, Zipper is the faerie dragon that serves as guide and ally. Again, the two uses are pretty close -- both have taken something that is not a zipper and simply named it zipper -- which is on the weak side, but forgivable given the ingredient. I find the use of the zipper as a concrete complication in IT stronger, though, that I do the use in PD. The faerie dragon could do everything in the adventure it's doing now with a name like Silver Snaps or Bronze Bedazzler -- the use of the ingredient is a bit more superficial in that case. Advantage IT. </p><p></p><p><strong>Forgetful Apprentice.</strong> So, Skink (in IT) is responsible for the invisibility of the tavern, the creation of the mistake that is the arrow of evil undone, and the Wizen the wizards wants nothing more than to be rid of him. Skink makes life difficult in humorous ways through the contest, and the repetition of "oh, I forgot about that rule" made me laugh out loud reading this entry. </p><p></p><p>In PD, Burglecot is also responsible for the mess -- he was supposed to hire "good" adventurers, but waited until the last minute, and ended up taking what he could get (the PCs). But Burglecot is more just the hook than an integral part of the adventure -- he could just as easily been a totally competent apprentice, and the adventure would change very little. It's not terrible, but Skink is better. Advantage Wulf. </p><p></p><p><strong>Contest Winner</strong> - Pretty much a wash ... the winner gets the prize, that's pretty straightforward. Again, IT is just a little better, though. in PD, the winner ingredient is either the previous champion, or the faerie dragon . . . or maybe the players. In IT, the plan is to make it Skink because that's what gets Skink out of WIzen's (and the player's) hair once and for all -- and, at that point in the adventure, after so many "oh, yeah, I forgot about thats" it's sure to be a more exciting win. Slight advantage IT. </p><p></p><p><strong>Flying Goblin.</strong> I'm pretty sure you're starting to see the pattern. In both cases, there is an actual flying goblin. In PD, though, the fact that Grishnak can fly makes very little direct impact on the adventure (presumably he can fly over the last obstacle, but can the rest of his team? Or did he find another way around? ) In IT, the flying goblin is the equivalent of the Wanker (or whatever it's called in Harry Potter) that chases the golden snitch (golden zipper). Flying keeps him above the areas of effect created by the zipper's zipping. It's a little bit more clear, a little better developed use of the ingredient. Advantage IT. </p><p></p><p>And . . the <strong>Arrow of Evil Undone</strong>. And, actually, I'm not sure that either adventure has an advantage on this one. I like the one in IT better -- its a more interesting magic item, and it becomes an interesting item in the player's hands during the adventure -- and in a very real way (if the target fails his save, unless he's a goblin) he can be "undone". The Arrow in PD, on the other hand, is the dingus at the end of the contest, and could just as easily been the Dart of Missed Opportunities or the Bolt of Baffling Boners. Not quite as interesting, not quite as cool. So . . .yeah, I guess that one is also advantage It. </p><p></p><p>Looking back at all of those, it really makes the contest look a lot more lopsided than I think it was. I think in each case the ingredients were used better by IT, but the margins were not huge. </p><p></p><p>Overall, I would have loved to favor the 4e adventure over the 3e one, but there were some minor flaws, I felt, in the execution of the whole PD package. We have an example of what amounts to a bit of handwaving I don't think does you any good service in a contest like this -- like leaving the puzzle details to the DM in the first challenge. That challenge is one of the central elements of your adventure -- it's not just garnish, wandering encounters or something on the way to the adventure that you can just dismiss. I hope that was just a matter of running out of time to get the entry in, but it would almost have been better to make that another skill challenge -- it would not have drawn attention to itself as a hole. Overall, I think this could be a fun adventure to play, although I think the skill challenges that make up the contest needed a bit more polish. </p><p></p><p>I had real misgivings about the Harry Potter spoof when I started reading -- all right, I laughed first, then I had misgivings. But I think that the overall effect of the spoof does not, as I feared it might, undermine the fun of playing the game. We have a laugh at the reference, but players who have read harry potter have no advantage over players who have not in the actual contest, and in the end it reads like it would be good fun to play. </p><p></p><p>So, anyway, two very good entries this time, but one was (in my eyes) clearly stronger. Thanks both of you for your efforts, and spinning gold from some tough ingredients. </p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Wulf</strong> wins. See you in the finals. </p><p></p><p></p><p>-rg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Radiating Gnome, post: 4980606, member: 150"] We've got a couple of strong entries here -- each has strengths and weaknesses, which just means that the judging is going to be interesting. Past Deeds (PD) is the tale of a dungeon crawl competition played out in a cavern below a tavern . . and that phrase in itself begs for a third "vern" in the mix . . . too bad there couldn't be a wyvern deep in the cavern under the tavern. Right, Vern? Invisible tavern (IT). is a spoof of something awfully familiar, but manages to create an interesting adventure with new things to discover. So, lets talk about ingredients. [B]Invisible Tavern.[/B] I'm pretty sure no one thanked me for pulling this one out of a hat. ;) In PD, the tavern is actually one of many entrances to the demiplane that is the host tavern to the contest. The tavern entrances are invisible, of course, so the PCs need a guide to find it. In IT, the PCs discover the tavern in the middle of the field -- and the invisible-ness of the tavern is a direct result of the forgetful apprentice. Frankly, neither of these is all that great -- they feel like the invisible nature of the ingredient is shoe-horned into the adventure. THey both connect to other ingredients, but I find the connection in IT to be slightly stronger -- the invisible tavern as example of forgetfulness in the apprentice, rather than being the reason a faerie dragon is needed as a guide. So, advantage IT. [B]Golden Zipper.[/B] In IT, the golden zipper is the analog of the snitch -- but it has it's own part to play in the checkerboard contest during the match. In PD, Zipper is the faerie dragon that serves as guide and ally. Again, the two uses are pretty close -- both have taken something that is not a zipper and simply named it zipper -- which is on the weak side, but forgivable given the ingredient. I find the use of the zipper as a concrete complication in IT stronger, though, that I do the use in PD. The faerie dragon could do everything in the adventure it's doing now with a name like Silver Snaps or Bronze Bedazzler -- the use of the ingredient is a bit more superficial in that case. Advantage IT. [B]Forgetful Apprentice.[/B] So, Skink (in IT) is responsible for the invisibility of the tavern, the creation of the mistake that is the arrow of evil undone, and the Wizen the wizards wants nothing more than to be rid of him. Skink makes life difficult in humorous ways through the contest, and the repetition of "oh, I forgot about that rule" made me laugh out loud reading this entry. In PD, Burglecot is also responsible for the mess -- he was supposed to hire "good" adventurers, but waited until the last minute, and ended up taking what he could get (the PCs). But Burglecot is more just the hook than an integral part of the adventure -- he could just as easily been a totally competent apprentice, and the adventure would change very little. It's not terrible, but Skink is better. Advantage Wulf. [B]Contest Winner[/B] - Pretty much a wash ... the winner gets the prize, that's pretty straightforward. Again, IT is just a little better, though. in PD, the winner ingredient is either the previous champion, or the faerie dragon . . . or maybe the players. In IT, the plan is to make it Skink because that's what gets Skink out of WIzen's (and the player's) hair once and for all -- and, at that point in the adventure, after so many "oh, yeah, I forgot about thats" it's sure to be a more exciting win. Slight advantage IT. [B]Flying Goblin.[/B] I'm pretty sure you're starting to see the pattern. In both cases, there is an actual flying goblin. In PD, though, the fact that Grishnak can fly makes very little direct impact on the adventure (presumably he can fly over the last obstacle, but can the rest of his team? Or did he find another way around? ) In IT, the flying goblin is the equivalent of the Wanker (or whatever it's called in Harry Potter) that chases the golden snitch (golden zipper). Flying keeps him above the areas of effect created by the zipper's zipping. It's a little bit more clear, a little better developed use of the ingredient. Advantage IT. And . . the [B]Arrow of Evil Undone[/B]. And, actually, I'm not sure that either adventure has an advantage on this one. I like the one in IT better -- its a more interesting magic item, and it becomes an interesting item in the player's hands during the adventure -- and in a very real way (if the target fails his save, unless he's a goblin) he can be "undone". The Arrow in PD, on the other hand, is the dingus at the end of the contest, and could just as easily been the Dart of Missed Opportunities or the Bolt of Baffling Boners. Not quite as interesting, not quite as cool. So . . .yeah, I guess that one is also advantage It. Looking back at all of those, it really makes the contest look a lot more lopsided than I think it was. I think in each case the ingredients were used better by IT, but the margins were not huge. Overall, I would have loved to favor the 4e adventure over the 3e one, but there were some minor flaws, I felt, in the execution of the whole PD package. We have an example of what amounts to a bit of handwaving I don't think does you any good service in a contest like this -- like leaving the puzzle details to the DM in the first challenge. That challenge is one of the central elements of your adventure -- it's not just garnish, wandering encounters or something on the way to the adventure that you can just dismiss. I hope that was just a matter of running out of time to get the entry in, but it would almost have been better to make that another skill challenge -- it would not have drawn attention to itself as a hole. Overall, I think this could be a fun adventure to play, although I think the skill challenges that make up the contest needed a bit more polish. I had real misgivings about the Harry Potter spoof when I started reading -- all right, I laughed first, then I had misgivings. But I think that the overall effect of the spoof does not, as I feared it might, undermine the fun of playing the game. We have a laugh at the reference, but players who have read harry potter have no advantage over players who have not in the actual contest, and in the end it reads like it would be good fun to play. So, anyway, two very good entries this time, but one was (in my eyes) clearly stronger. Thanks both of you for your efforts, and spinning gold from some tough ingredients. [B] Wulf[/B] wins. See you in the finals. -rg [/QUOTE]
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