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<blockquote data-quote="Rune" data-source="post: 6717355" data-attributes="member: 67"><p><strong>Judgement for Round 1, Match 4: Deuce Traveler vs. LucasC</strong></p><p></p><p>While they both have some similarities, these two adventures are about as different in play-style as two adventures can be. One has a plot complex enough to feature in an Elizabethan play. The other, a simple--yet sinister--mystery to solve. I have a lot to talk about here, but I certainly don't want to ignore the ingredients, so let's get to them now. </p><p></p><p>In general, I was disappointed in how most of the ingredients were incorporated, but more so in "The Game" ("Game") than in "The Inn of the Tarnished Mirror" ("Inn"). I think part of this is because the details of the former raise so many questions that often what was probably intended as an important clue simply seems a confusing piece of scenery. </p><p></p><p>Take <strong>New Graves</strong>, for instance. I'm not even sure the PCs would ever go there. If they do, can they see the hanging gnolls? They are described as hanging high above the mouth of the waterfall, and the cemetery is at the base of the mountain. But the mouth of a waterway refers to where it joins a larger body of water--in other words, downstream. </p><p></p><p>This confusion causes problems with the <strong>Death from Above</strong> ingredient, as well. I really like the concept of it, but if the bodies are downstream, it doesn't make much sense--they are not above, should be easily cut down by the villagers, and shouldn't poison them anyway. </p><p></p><p>I have to think that what is intended here is that they are hung above the top of the waterfall. But, again, are they visible from the cemetery (or the rest of town, for that matter)? If not, how are the PCs ever going to know to go up there? And if so, why didn't the villagers cut them down?</p><p></p><p>I don't think the <strong>Painful Puns</strong> (which are not actually painful) are sufficient to lead the PCs there, even if they do help them identify the oubliette when (if) they do. </p><p></p><p>Which brings us to the <strong>Desperate Gnoll</strong>. It certainly has been put in a desperate situation (I assume as part of the game's machinations), but I see no reason why it (or the others) need be a gnoll. And what key does it hold to Magnus's downfall? Knowledge of the gold veins? So what? The fact that Magnus hired a mercenary to kill the gnolls? Isn't that what adventurers do all the time? It feels like an important detail is missing, here. </p><p></p><p>And the questions keep coming. Why exorcise a demon that is already departed? Perhaps the idea was to ward against it, instead, in which case I can see where the <strong>Half Measure<strong> of hiring a bargain-basement wizard would be significant to the adventure. If the adventure had anything to do with a demon trying to breach such wards. But this demon lays a trap and has Magnus come to him, making the ingredient entirely irrelevant. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>And what of the demon? I like the wickedly gleeful innkeeper persona, particularly as a mastermind for a subtle long-game. But a <strong>Jovial Innkeeper</strong> it is not, lacking the crucial component of friendliness. And what, exactly, is the game he is playing. If we were given any details of it, we could use it to ensnare the PCs as they get involved with things, but, unfortunately, there's no real indication of its nature. That's an unfortunate missed opportunity. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>And then there are the questions that aren't tied to ingredients. Like, how did Magnus's leaving ruin Declan? Why does Olivia hate the demon? Why did she become a mercenary? Why did she hang the gnolls over the waterfall? Why spare one? Why put it in an oubliette? Who built that, anyway? They go on and on. I think we might have answers to some of those, if we had a clearer understanding of the game. But, lacking that, we are left to fill in the blanks ourselves. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>How does "Inn" stack up? The <strong>New Graves</strong> are an important location that provide a lot of potential clues the PCs. The bodies of the murdered victims (especially Raol) can point the PCs toward uncovering the doppelgänger. There, they'll also find the (more paranoid than) <strong>Desperate Gnoll</strong> whose story can help do the same. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>The <strong>Jovial Innkeeper</strong> serves the adventure in his absence--the doppelgänger can't or won't duplicate his personality (nor his culinary skill) and this, too, is a clue, as are the related <strong>Painful Puns</strong> (that aren't in any way puns). And, by the way, that drop in food quality? Two hints in one--both a hint at a change in personnel (so to speak) and a change in ingredients. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>Speaking of which, that <strong>Half Measure</strong> (replaceable as it may be in the context of the adventure) points to the same. As do the murder-holes meant to be the <strong>Death from Above</strong> ingredient (but why place them above the victims? Wouldn't it work better if they were on the same level?). </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>Some of those ingredients are pretty weak. Some are poor fits. But they all have one thing in common: they're all clues for the PCs to find and figure out. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>And that pretty much illustrates the major difference between the two entries; one is filled with questions and the other is filled with answers. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>LucasC, there definitely are some good things in your entry. I like how unlikable Magnus is, especially if he is the PCs' patron. I like your hooks, which are all much stronger than the one in "Inn." The multiple objectives that you lay out for the PCs to pursue are also good. And the overall adventure looks like it would be fun. With some work on the DM's part in figuring out the answers to its many questions. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>Finally, I like your ambition. The many complications could potentially make for a game that would be talked about for years to come. But I think that ambition probably was the source of your problems. I think that your attempts to complicate your plot compounded the confusion (for DM and players) and I think would likely make running the game very difficult. Also, it cluttered the backstory with things that the PCs would likely never learn. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>If I may make a recommendation, it would be this: give your NPCs agendas instead of (extensive) backstories. Agendas are things that PCs run up against. Backstories, by definition, aren't. I think that shift in presentation will lead to tighter adventures with more for PCs to do. With your breadth of vision, the rest should fall into place. I expect, should you choose to compete again, you'll turn some heads. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>Deuce Traveler, this wasn't your finest work; I think you know that. But it <em>is</em> a good mystery with a very good structure. I am impressed with how many clues (including every single ingredient) serve to ensure that the adventure progresses--all without actually spelling anything out for the players. The adventure looks fun and <em>very</em> easy to run.</strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>Deuce Traveler advances to Round 2. </strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong>Oh, and by the way: Painful Puns + Desperate Gnoll. There was something <em>right there</em>! I just <em>know</em> it!</strong></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rune, post: 6717355, member: 67"] [b]Judgement for Round 1, Match 4: Deuce Traveler vs. LucasC[/b] While they both have some similarities, these two adventures are about as different in play-style as two adventures can be. One has a plot complex enough to feature in an Elizabethan play. The other, a simple--yet sinister--mystery to solve. I have a lot to talk about here, but I certainly don't want to ignore the ingredients, so let's get to them now. In general, I was disappointed in how most of the ingredients were incorporated, but more so in "The Game" ("Game") than in "The Inn of the Tarnished Mirror" ("Inn"). I think part of this is because the details of the former raise so many questions that often what was probably intended as an important clue simply seems a confusing piece of scenery. Take [b]New Graves[/b], for instance. I'm not even sure the PCs would ever go there. If they do, can they see the hanging gnolls? They are described as hanging high above the mouth of the waterfall, and the cemetery is at the base of the mountain. But the mouth of a waterway refers to where it joins a larger body of water--in other words, downstream. This confusion causes problems with the [b]Death from Above[/b] ingredient, as well. I really like the concept of it, but if the bodies are downstream, it doesn't make much sense--they are not above, should be easily cut down by the villagers, and shouldn't poison them anyway. I have to think that what is intended here is that they are hung above the top of the waterfall. But, again, are they visible from the cemetery (or the rest of town, for that matter)? If not, how are the PCs ever going to know to go up there? And if so, why didn't the villagers cut them down? I don't think the [b]Painful Puns[/b] (which are not actually painful) are sufficient to lead the PCs there, even if they do help them identify the oubliette when (if) they do. Which brings us to the [b]Desperate Gnoll[/b]. It certainly has been put in a desperate situation (I assume as part of the game's machinations), but I see no reason why it (or the others) need be a gnoll. And what key does it hold to Magnus's downfall? Knowledge of the gold veins? So what? The fact that Magnus hired a mercenary to kill the gnolls? Isn't that what adventurers do all the time? It feels like an important detail is missing, here. And the questions keep coming. Why exorcise a demon that is already departed? Perhaps the idea was to ward against it, instead, in which case I can see where the [b]Half Measure[b] of hiring a bargain-basement wizard would be significant to the adventure. If the adventure had anything to do with a demon trying to breach such wards. But this demon lays a trap and has Magnus come to him, making the ingredient entirely irrelevant. And what of the demon? I like the wickedly gleeful innkeeper persona, particularly as a mastermind for a subtle long-game. But a [b]Jovial Innkeeper[/b] it is not, lacking the crucial component of friendliness. And what, exactly, is the game he is playing. If we were given any details of it, we could use it to ensnare the PCs as they get involved with things, but, unfortunately, there's no real indication of its nature. That's an unfortunate missed opportunity. And then there are the questions that aren't tied to ingredients. Like, how did Magnus's leaving ruin Declan? Why does Olivia hate the demon? Why did she become a mercenary? Why did she hang the gnolls over the waterfall? Why spare one? Why put it in an oubliette? Who built that, anyway? They go on and on. I think we might have answers to some of those, if we had a clearer understanding of the game. But, lacking that, we are left to fill in the blanks ourselves. How does "Inn" stack up? The [b]New Graves[/b] are an important location that provide a lot of potential clues the PCs. The bodies of the murdered victims (especially Raol) can point the PCs toward uncovering the doppelgänger. There, they'll also find the (more paranoid than) [b]Desperate Gnoll[/b] whose story can help do the same. The [b]Jovial Innkeeper[/b] serves the adventure in his absence--the doppelgänger can't or won't duplicate his personality (nor his culinary skill) and this, too, is a clue, as are the related [b]Painful Puns[/b] (that aren't in any way puns). And, by the way, that drop in food quality? Two hints in one--both a hint at a change in personnel (so to speak) and a change in ingredients. Speaking of which, that [b]Half Measure[/b] (replaceable as it may be in the context of the adventure) points to the same. As do the murder-holes meant to be the [b]Death from Above[/b] ingredient (but why place them above the victims? Wouldn't it work better if they were on the same level?). Some of those ingredients are pretty weak. Some are poor fits. But they all have one thing in common: they're all clues for the PCs to find and figure out. And that pretty much illustrates the major difference between the two entries; one is filled with questions and the other is filled with answers. LucasC, there definitely are some good things in your entry. I like how unlikable Magnus is, especially if he is the PCs' patron. I like your hooks, which are all much stronger than the one in "Inn." The multiple objectives that you lay out for the PCs to pursue are also good. And the overall adventure looks like it would be fun. With some work on the DM's part in figuring out the answers to its many questions. Finally, I like your ambition. The many complications could potentially make for a game that would be talked about for years to come. But I think that ambition probably was the source of your problems. I think that your attempts to complicate your plot compounded the confusion (for DM and players) and I think would likely make running the game very difficult. Also, it cluttered the backstory with things that the PCs would likely never learn. If I may make a recommendation, it would be this: give your NPCs agendas instead of (extensive) backstories. Agendas are things that PCs run up against. Backstories, by definition, aren't. I think that shift in presentation will lead to tighter adventures with more for PCs to do. With your breadth of vision, the rest should fall into place. I expect, should you choose to compete again, you'll turn some heads. Deuce Traveler, this wasn't your finest work; I think you know that. But it [i]is[/i] a good mystery with a very good structure. I am impressed with how many clues (including every single ingredient) serve to ensure that the adventure progresses--all without actually spelling anything out for the players. The adventure looks fun and [i]very[/i] easy to run. Deuce Traveler advances to Round 2. Oh, and by the way: Painful Puns + Desperate Gnoll. There was something [i]right there[/i]! I just [i]know[/i] it![/b][/b] [/QUOTE]
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