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<blockquote data-quote="Rune" data-source="post: 7308677" data-attributes="member: 67"><p><strong>Judgement for Round 1, Match 4: Deuce Traveler vs. Lwaxy</strong></p><p></p><p>Let's switch this up and start with...</p><p></p><p><strong>The ingredients:</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Forsaken Avatar.</strong> Technically, this is present in "A Simple Vermin Hunt" ("Hunt") in the form of the clay idol. It is abandoned by the dwarves and then again by Deekon, although he does come back for it. The fact that it is abandoned is directly important to the adventure, so that's good. And it is pretty tightly woven in with all of the other ingredients, so that's great. </p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, the fact that it is an avatar instead of a powerful artifact or relic doesn't seem important (and doesn't even make as much sense). It need not even be intelligent for the adventure to work (although, admittedly, it would make things more interesting). Also unfortunately, for most of the adventure, it amounts to nothing more than a macguffin. </p><p></p><p>With "Modern Limbo" ("Limbo"), the avatar part is fantastic, but the forsaken part leaves me confused. Presumably, she calls herself that because she feels abandoned by her previous employers, which leads to the ruination of her body and necessitates the permanent avatar which her consciousness inhabits. </p><p></p><p>What doesn't quite click can be attributed to the lack of details about the mission that left The Forsaken ruined. We never find out enough about that mission to know if she was abandoned at some critical juncture in the mission, as she seems to think, or, whether, as in the company's estimation, she was the victim of her own incompetence (she certainly <em>seems</em> hyper-competent during <em>this</em> adventure). </p><p></p><p>We can surmise that the company did abandon her after the event, though, so the ingredient still works. Added to that, it is the heart of the adventure and particularly well-tied to the ruined vassal ingredient. </p><p></p><p>Speaking of which...</p><p></p><p><strong>Ruined Vassal.</strong>The fact that The Foresaken in "Limbo" is ruined is integral to the adventure, but the nature of her status as a vassal raises questions. We already know (from the hook) that Saeder-Krupp doesn't like risking its own employees on missions and prefers to hire outside runners (because they are expendable). But this is where things get problematic.</p><p></p><p>Saeder-Krupp's treatment of The Forsaken is callous (if not downright treacherous) and suggests that she was a freelance runner, herself. But, if that's the case, she can't really be called a vassal. </p><p></p><p>"Hunt" provides a ruined vassal whose position as such never really matters in the adventure, other than by providing motivation. If he had become enslaved to the avatar and his mutation somehow ruined him, that would have been a better use. </p><p></p><p>The ingredient is both more significant to the adventure, and also flawed in "Limbo." Thus, no advantage to either entry. </p><p></p><p><strong>Twisting Tunnel.</strong> This ingredient was kind of disappointing in both entries. In neither case did the tunnels actually need to be twisting, and, in "Hunt," it would have made more sense if they didn't (being carved out by the dwarves, after all). I was also looking for the chaos magic to twist the tunnels around the PCs, or cause the things within to be twisted, but that didn't really happen, either. All of the mutations seem to happen independent of the tunnels. </p><p></p><p>"Limbo" has its tunnels change appearance in the matrix, but, other than possibly cluing the PCs into their whereabouts, it doesn't seem to matter. (Although, tricking PCs into thinking their fellows have disappeared has great potential for chaotic fun!)</p><p></p><p><strong>Goblin Tribe.</strong> This is the fourth match in a row that someone has used an ingredient as a name and called it a day. Stop it! It's lazy and, frankly, a little insulting. I haven't let it slide so far; why would I start, now?</p><p></p><p>"Hunt," at least, uses the ingredient. It doesn't necessarily matter that they be goblins, but they do need to be subterranean tunnel-dwellers, so that works. Additionally, the domesticated vermin-livestock suggest some sort of civilization and a tribe works just fine for that. </p><p></p><p><strong>Chaos.</strong> Both entries feature chaotic climaxes with multiple sides and moving parts. That's fun. </p><p></p><p>However, "Hunt" takes this ingredient to another level by using it as a force that is present throughout the adventure. In this role, it is both a theme and, basically, a character. As such, it is also woven into all of the other ingredients and, consequently, elevated by all of them. Superb. </p><p></p><p><strong>Mundane Quest.</strong> This features in "Hunt" as anything but. The hook is mundane enough (clichéd, even), but that only serves to contrast with the chaos that is to follow. It might work better for the ingredient-usage if all of that chaos were a mere side-quest, but it's likely better for the adventure that it isn't. </p><p></p><p>In "Limbo," the mundane quest remains mundane, presumably, but this is one of the structural problems of the adventure. The whole adventure revolves around the details of that past quest, but we never find out enough about them to run things appropriately. All we ever know about it are the consequences: The Forsaken is horribly injured, she blames the company, and they blame her. </p><p></p><p>Whatever details the PCs are supposed to acquire apparently don't matter enough for the GM or players to know what they are. This turns what should be the lynchpin of the entire adventure into a mere macguffin. What a waste. </p><p></p><p>Which takes us to...</p><p></p><p><strong>The adventures:</strong></p><p></p><p>Both adventures have fundamentally intriguing foundations and look to be fun to play through. In particular, I was looking forward to seeing a matrix-based adventure (given the avatar ingredient) as soon as I read that "Limbo" was going to use Shadowrun. </p><p></p><p>One of these two entries is just a whole lot tighter than the other, though. I'll start at the end. After the climax is over, there's something disappointing in how "Limbo" wraps things up. Assuming the PCs win their final battle, no consequences come about for anybody that reflect how well or how badly the PCs did – or what methods they used. The Forsaken gets taken into custody (okay), the other (surviving) trolls get freed (okay, I guess), and the PCs get paid and healed up, even if they hacked the company. <em>What? That doesn't make any sense!</em> What Shadowrun corporation would knowingly let them get away with that?</p><p></p><p>Then there are a couple of hooks presented as lead-ins to future adventures, but the PCs have no chance of discovering them organically during the adventure, because they come out of nowhere. </p><p></p><p>I'd contrast all this with the conclusion of "Hunt," but there is none! The adventure deposits us into a chaotic climax and leaves us at that. This might fit in with the chaos theme, but, assuming it isn't a TPK, the adventure is actually going to need some kind of conclusion, and we have absolutely no explicit help there. We have plenty of material with which to come up with something, but we shouldn't be forced to figure it out for ourselves. </p><p></p><p>Up until that, though, the rest of the adventure falls right in place. Each part leads the PCs seamlessly to the next, without requiring them to follow. Things might be worse for them later on if they don't figure out what's going on in time (or just give up on the vermin hunt entirely), but that doesn't mean the consequences won't get back to them!</p><p></p><p>"Limbo," on the other hand, raises a lot of questions that gnaw away at its verisimilitude (to use a word that used to mean something before the edition-war nonsense ruined it). For example, the adventure seems to suggest that the trolls caught in the nets are captives of The Forsaken who have no idea they are in the matrix. But, who, then, plugged her body into the matrix? Who set up all of the traps? And what's the point of keeping them in the dark, anyway? Surely they'd be more useful to her if they weren't trapped inside?</p><p></p><p>Speaking of which, The Forsaken seems to have a whole lot of control over things in the real world for someone who isn't in it. Now, it's been quite a while since I've looked at Shadowrun, so I will concede that this might actually be a thing that is possible in the system/setting, but I kept wanting to apply <em>The Matrix</em>-movie rules, in which the real-world body is unaware of the real-world surroundings and events while plugged in.</p><p></p><p><strong>To conclude:</strong></p><p></p><p>At any rate, "Hunt" has the edge on ingredient use and it is a very tight – frankly, superlative – adventure. This may not be Deuce Traveler's very best entry, but it is definitely A-game material. And, as someone who has lost every match with Deuce that I've ever had, let me assure you: Deuce's A-game is damned hard to beat!</p><p></p><p>Lwaxy, I really liked what I saw of your adventure. Against a lot of other entries, it could have won. I'm pretty sure this will come as no revelation to you, but you just need to find the time to tighten things up! And to make those ingredients matter, of course. You do too many things well for me to think the short-comings came out of inexperience. I'm certainly thankful you found the time to compete, at all. I'll find a way to use your adventure, even if not in Shadowrun!</p><p></p><p>That said, Deuce Traveler advances to Round 2.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rune, post: 7308677, member: 67"] [b]Judgement for Round 1, Match 4: Deuce Traveler vs. Lwaxy[/b] Let's switch this up and start with... [b]The ingredients:[/b] [b]Forsaken Avatar.[/b] Technically, this is present in "A Simple Vermin Hunt" ("Hunt") in the form of the clay idol. It is abandoned by the dwarves and then again by Deekon, although he does come back for it. The fact that it is abandoned is directly important to the adventure, so that's good. And it is pretty tightly woven in with all of the other ingredients, so that's great. Unfortunately, the fact that it is an avatar instead of a powerful artifact or relic doesn't seem important (and doesn't even make as much sense). It need not even be intelligent for the adventure to work (although, admittedly, it would make things more interesting). Also unfortunately, for most of the adventure, it amounts to nothing more than a macguffin. With "Modern Limbo" ("Limbo"), the avatar part is fantastic, but the forsaken part leaves me confused. Presumably, she calls herself that because she feels abandoned by her previous employers, which leads to the ruination of her body and necessitates the permanent avatar which her consciousness inhabits. What doesn't quite click can be attributed to the lack of details about the mission that left The Forsaken ruined. We never find out enough about that mission to know if she was abandoned at some critical juncture in the mission, as she seems to think, or, whether, as in the company's estimation, she was the victim of her own incompetence (she certainly [i]seems[/i] hyper-competent during [i]this[/i] adventure). We can surmise that the company did abandon her after the event, though, so the ingredient still works. Added to that, it is the heart of the adventure and particularly well-tied to the ruined vassal ingredient. Speaking of which... [b]Ruined Vassal.[/b]The fact that The Foresaken in "Limbo" is ruined is integral to the adventure, but the nature of her status as a vassal raises questions. We already know (from the hook) that Saeder-Krupp doesn't like risking its own employees on missions and prefers to hire outside runners (because they are expendable). But this is where things get problematic. Saeder-Krupp's treatment of The Forsaken is callous (if not downright treacherous) and suggests that she was a freelance runner, herself. But, if that's the case, she can't really be called a vassal. "Hunt" provides a ruined vassal whose position as such never really matters in the adventure, other than by providing motivation. If he had become enslaved to the avatar and his mutation somehow ruined him, that would have been a better use. The ingredient is both more significant to the adventure, and also flawed in "Limbo." Thus, no advantage to either entry. [b]Twisting Tunnel.[/b] This ingredient was kind of disappointing in both entries. In neither case did the tunnels actually need to be twisting, and, in "Hunt," it would have made more sense if they didn't (being carved out by the dwarves, after all). I was also looking for the chaos magic to twist the tunnels around the PCs, or cause the things within to be twisted, but that didn't really happen, either. All of the mutations seem to happen independent of the tunnels. "Limbo" has its tunnels change appearance in the matrix, but, other than possibly cluing the PCs into their whereabouts, it doesn't seem to matter. (Although, tricking PCs into thinking their fellows have disappeared has great potential for chaotic fun!) [b]Goblin Tribe.[/b] This is the fourth match in a row that someone has used an ingredient as a name and called it a day. Stop it! It's lazy and, frankly, a little insulting. I haven't let it slide so far; why would I start, now? "Hunt," at least, uses the ingredient. It doesn't necessarily matter that they be goblins, but they do need to be subterranean tunnel-dwellers, so that works. Additionally, the domesticated vermin-livestock suggest some sort of civilization and a tribe works just fine for that. [b]Chaos.[/b] Both entries feature chaotic climaxes with multiple sides and moving parts. That's fun. However, "Hunt" takes this ingredient to another level by using it as a force that is present throughout the adventure. In this role, it is both a theme and, basically, a character. As such, it is also woven into all of the other ingredients and, consequently, elevated by all of them. Superb. [b]Mundane Quest.[/b] This features in "Hunt" as anything but. The hook is mundane enough (clichéd, even), but that only serves to contrast with the chaos that is to follow. It might work better for the ingredient-usage if all of that chaos were a mere side-quest, but it's likely better for the adventure that it isn't. In "Limbo," the mundane quest remains mundane, presumably, but this is one of the structural problems of the adventure. The whole adventure revolves around the details of that past quest, but we never find out enough about them to run things appropriately. All we ever know about it are the consequences: The Forsaken is horribly injured, she blames the company, and they blame her. Whatever details the PCs are supposed to acquire apparently don't matter enough for the GM or players to know what they are. This turns what should be the lynchpin of the entire adventure into a mere macguffin. What a waste. Which takes us to... [b]The adventures:[/b] Both adventures have fundamentally intriguing foundations and look to be fun to play through. In particular, I was looking forward to seeing a matrix-based adventure (given the avatar ingredient) as soon as I read that "Limbo" was going to use Shadowrun. One of these two entries is just a whole lot tighter than the other, though. I'll start at the end. After the climax is over, there's something disappointing in how "Limbo" wraps things up. Assuming the PCs win their final battle, no consequences come about for anybody that reflect how well or how badly the PCs did – or what methods they used. The Forsaken gets taken into custody (okay), the other (surviving) trolls get freed (okay, I guess), and the PCs get paid and healed up, even if they hacked the company. [i]What? That doesn't make any sense![/i] What Shadowrun corporation would knowingly let them get away with that? Then there are a couple of hooks presented as lead-ins to future adventures, but the PCs have no chance of discovering them organically during the adventure, because they come out of nowhere. I'd contrast all this with the conclusion of "Hunt," but there is none! The adventure deposits us into a chaotic climax and leaves us at that. This might fit in with the chaos theme, but, assuming it isn't a TPK, the adventure is actually going to need some kind of conclusion, and we have absolutely no explicit help there. We have plenty of material with which to come up with something, but we shouldn't be forced to figure it out for ourselves. Up until that, though, the rest of the adventure falls right in place. Each part leads the PCs seamlessly to the next, without requiring them to follow. Things might be worse for them later on if they don't figure out what's going on in time (or just give up on the vermin hunt entirely), but that doesn't mean the consequences won't get back to them! "Limbo," on the other hand, raises a lot of questions that gnaw away at its verisimilitude (to use a word that used to mean something before the edition-war nonsense ruined it). For example, the adventure seems to suggest that the trolls caught in the nets are captives of The Forsaken who have no idea they are in the matrix. But, who, then, plugged her body into the matrix? Who set up all of the traps? And what's the point of keeping them in the dark, anyway? Surely they'd be more useful to her if they weren't trapped inside? Speaking of which, The Forsaken seems to have a whole lot of control over things in the real world for someone who isn't in it. Now, it's been quite a while since I've looked at Shadowrun, so I will concede that this might actually be a thing that is possible in the system/setting, but I kept wanting to apply [i]The Matrix[/i]-movie rules, in which the real-world body is unaware of the real-world surroundings and events while plugged in. [b]To conclude:[/b] At any rate, "Hunt" has the edge on ingredient use and it is a very tight – frankly, superlative – adventure. This may not be Deuce Traveler's very best entry, but it is definitely A-game material. And, as someone who has lost every match with Deuce that I've ever had, let me assure you: Deuce's A-game is damned hard to beat! Lwaxy, I really liked what I saw of your adventure. Against a lot of other entries, it could have won. I'm pretty sure this will come as no revelation to you, but you just need to find the time to tighten things up! And to make those ingredients matter, of course. You do too many things well for me to think the short-comings came out of inexperience. I'm certainly thankful you found the time to compete, at all. I'll find a way to use your adventure, even if not in Shadowrun! That said, Deuce Traveler advances to Round 2. [/QUOTE]
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