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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 2557096" data-attributes="member: 994">I think that's what seems to rub me the wrong way when I read through the classes. There are token classes that are entirely in control of when they get tokens (Archer, Hunter, Weapon Master) while the Berserker & the Armiger are builit the other way; they largely rely on their opponents to whack at them. The Berserker at least has his Stoke Fury ability to gain tokens, but the Armiger is solely dependent on his foes actions which seems a lot to me like the 3.5 Ranger's Favored Enemy ability (ie. hoping the DM is going to keep throwing orcs at you cuz that's the big bonus you've invested in <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />). And I'm never keen on two PCs fighting for the same limelight, namely being the ones surrounded and beat on.While I've often seen suggested that as an Armiger you pick on "the big guy", that just doesn't seem to play out. As a DM, if my "big guy" is at all smart, he's going to realize pretty quickly that pounding away at the guy who's ready to be pounded on isn't a very effective tactic. He'd be far better off to try and catch the fast & squishy guy (Harrier) or charging the sneaky-type moving cautiously around the outskirts of the fight (Executioner and/or Thief). From a metagame standpoint, it's pretty clear that if you don't let the Armiger gain tokens he's not as much of a threat, so if you ignore him for awhile you're actually better off in many ways.Ooops, my bad. You're right! I'm still partly in Core mode I guess.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":o" title="Eek!    :o"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":o" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> He does have the worst Defense progression, though he does get to enjoy a bit better Dex to Defense with his Armor Mastery (but as you say, that doesn't really actually help his acquisition of tokens). The Armor Mastery feats all help him quite a bit, but the other Armor Feat Masteries, namely Improved Shield Bash & Shield Mastery, are largely working at cross-purposes with his token accumulation again. You don't really want your defense to go up because then you have to find a way to get it back down to get hit more. And if you don't have to worry about lowering it because your opponent is so good he can hit you as is then he shouldn't have a lot of problems hitting any of the more squishy members of your party before he turns his attention to you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />His next best Feat Mastery is Defense, which also is at odds with his token accumulation: Deflect missiles doesn't allow him to absorb any damage, and Dodge & Mobility both make it harder to hit him!The concept is really cool, but the execution seems to fall short. Now, as a playtester you may have seen one in play, Capellan, so I'd be interested to hear from you or that player and get a feel for what really played out okay and if anything just didn't seem to work as intended tableside.Has anyone designed a mid to high level Armiger and found them capable of what they expect from the class's description? Anyone want to post one? (Consider it a challenge if it'll provoke a response: 10-15th level, or thereabouts, standard IH ruleset.)Thanks!DrSpunj</blockquote>

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