Iron Heroes and Shackled Cities

[punkorange]

How hard would it be to run the Shackled City path using Iron Heroes? I like the idea of both, and would like to run both, but how easily would the two mix? If I am wanting to run the adventure path is it best to leave Iron Heroes for a future game?

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, that depends on how easy it is to run Iron Heroes against D&D monsters. For the lower level bits, probably not too hard. For the higher level parts where some Planar travel comes into play, maybe a little more difficult.

 

[Yair]

I don't own either, so I am perfectly poised to comment.

Iron Heroes doesn't have magic items, Shackled City gives them away (i.e. have NPCs use them and such); this ought to cause problems. Iron Heroes expects no clerics, Shackled City probably counts on clerics and their temples; this is likely to cause problems too.

There are probably lots that I'm missing, since... ehmm... I don't own either.

You can probably jury-rig it, but still.

 

[Odhanan]

Iron Heroes doesn't have magic items, Shackled City gives them away (i.e. have NPCs use them and such); this ought to cause problems. Iron Heroes expects no clerics, Shackled City probably counts on clerics and their temples; this is likely to cause problems too.

I own both volumes.

These factors don't play a role in the basic game balance - it's taken care of by the design of IH itself which allows oppositions with D&D creatures.

On the Iron League (link on my sig) you can find a document of conversion of all the MM monsters to IH (DM tools section - here).

Now Mastering Iron Heroes involves rules for magic items. The idea here is that magic items may give power to IH characters but always have a price (think Stormbringer in Elric's hand or Cthulhu's artefacts for comparisons). So necessary magic items can remain in the Shackled City. Just add some flaws to their use so that they aren't just "boons" for your PCs, with a kind of "corrupt and/or alien magic" approach and you'll be fine (the Cagewrights hold their power from an extraplanar source so that shouldn't be a problem on a believability-level).

As for Clerics and Healing, IH's designed with this thought in mind as well. No need for Clerics, and IH characters can take a lot. There is the reserve which replenishes the characters hit points, and the Healing skill which can replenish your reserve. So no problem should especially arise but in case of death of character (dead is dead, unless you come up as a DM with an idea that would allow a dead PC to come back - perhaps selling his soul to infernal beings or whatnot).

Honestly, Cauldron would need a bit of modifications in terms of NPCs, stores available and so on.

I think the Shackled City Adventure Path would be best played as designed, for D&D. But you can adapt it for IH and have a blast if you have enough preparation time.

 

[Yair]

These factors don't play a role in the basic game balance - it's taken care of by the design of IH itself which allows oppositions with D&D creatures.

Respectfully, how can you say that when IH characters don't have magical gear while the adventure expects them to take magical gear from their fallen foes? IH is balanced against D&D monsters on the assumption that the character DON'T have magical gear; giving them gear breaks the balance. You would hence need to retrofit the adventure to explain how come all the NPCs use magic items while the PCs can't, or else alter the character's advancement in an attempt to compensate for their greater power.

I'm also positive there are areas in the SC campaign where specific powers are expected from the PCs, such as being able to breath water, hit incorporeal opponents, fly, or so on (especially at high levels); IH will again have problems negotiating such hurdles.

I agree of course SC can be converted to IH; anything can be converted to anything with sufficient work. But I don't believe it will be particularly easy to convert.
If I was looking to an adventure to convert, I'd look for something with less assumed magic. Perhaps Slavelords of Cydonia.

 

[Odhanan]

Respectfully, Yair, I wonder if you've read my entire post. I agree with you that monsters shouldn't be loaded with D&D magic items OR you justify that IH characters can't use these items. These treasures aren't *necessary* to the Adventure Path. If there are necessary plot items in the AP they can be translated using Mastering Iron Heroes.

I'm also positive there are areas in the SC campaign where specific powers are expected from the PCs, such as being able to breath water, hit incorporeal opponents, fly, or so on (especially at high levels); IH will again have problems negotiating such hurdles.

That's another matter entirely, and indeed, that may be a problem that would need adjustments from the DM. Either by modifying encounter areas or including some specific help (in potions and whatnot) according to the Mastering IH rules to allow such things temporarily with a high cost for the PCs. Nothing really impossible to adjust I think, but still, that would count in the preparation time I was talking about.

I don't want to make it sound easy. But it isn't difficult either. It would require time.

PS: You seem to know a lot about the SCAP without having read it, Yair!

 

[Lobo Lurker]

The simple fix is that the NPC's magical gear ONLY works for those NPCs as it's 'attuned' to them. Or you change the nature of the magical items so that they become tattoos and what not... things the PCs cannot steal.

 

[med stud]

The items of the NPCs can just be subsumed into their stats. A sword +2 is just a regular sword but the NPC gets +2 to attack and +2 to dmg, for example.

Certain elements (like waterbreathing) can be added by using NPC magicians or the like, just like Odahnan proposed. The ability to breath water is not really bad for the balance of the game; if the PCs can't breath under water they can't adventure under water either, so that could even be resolved by giving the PCs permanent magical items IMO, but it isn't needed.

 

[Yair]

PS: You seem to know a lot about the SCAP without having read it, Yair!

I read a lot ABOUT it... and IH, for that matter. I am now awaiting its delivary by mail, which takes forever to get where I'm living.

I'm afraid I came out too strong; you're right, and make good suggestions for conversion.

 

[punkorange]

Well, would it be easier to use arcana unearthed with shackled city?