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<blockquote data-quote="Pbartender" data-source="post: 4051618" data-attributes="member: 7533">No...&nbsp; What I'm saying is that in 4E, the challenge level of encounters take into account an assumed bonus to attack, damage, saves and AC, which is calculated according to a formula derived by the game designers and is provided in the standard game by three basic magic items, but could practically be provided for by any other method you could possibly imagine -- heroic skill, adventurous virtue, luck, grace of the gods, guardian spirits, whatever.&nbsp; Changing the vehicle for those bonuses is a house rule, yes, but it's purely a &quot;fluffy&quot; stylistic houserule that has no impact on the mechanics of the game whatsoever.&nbsp; By this means, you eliminate the &quot;dependence&quot; on carrying magic items, since secondary magic items are factored into the challenge level of enounters and can therefore be left out entirely.3rd Edition, on the other hand, assumed a particular monetary value of magic at each level without regard for what type of magic items were being used.&nbsp; There was simply no way to divorce magic items from challenge level calculations.4th Edition makes it easy... Just ignore secondary magic items, and change the source of the bonus that normally comes from primary magic items. It's trivial.4E may not be specifically designed to play without magic items, but the designers seem to be making it excessively easy to make that adjustment.At any rate the point to my earlier response had nothing to do with houseruling, but the fact that there is a difference to requiring magic items (3E), and requiring a bonus to certain stats (4E)...&nbsp; In the standard rules, the required bonus is normally granted by magic items, but it doesn't have to be. So long as the assumed bonus still exists, magic items can be eliminated.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pbartender, post: 4051618, member: 7533"] No... What I'm saying is that in 4E, the challenge level of encounters take into account an assumed bonus to attack, damage, saves and AC, which is calculated according to a formula derived by the game designers and is provided in the standard game by three basic magic items, but could practically be provided for by any other method you could possibly imagine -- heroic skill, adventurous virtue, luck, grace of the gods, guardian spirits, whatever. Changing the vehicle for those bonuses is a house rule, yes, but it's purely a "fluffy" stylistic houserule that has no impact on the mechanics of the game whatsoever. By this means, you eliminate the "dependence" on carrying magic items, since secondary magic items are factored into the challenge level of enounters and can therefore be left out entirely. 3rd Edition, on the other hand, assumed a particular monetary value of magic at each level without regard for what type of magic items were being used. There was simply no way to divorce magic items from challenge level calculations. 4th Edition makes it easy... Just ignore secondary magic items, and change the source of the bonus that normally comes from primary magic items. It's trivial. 4E may not be specifically designed to play without magic items, but the designers seem to be making it excessively easy to make that adjustment. At any rate the point to my earlier response had nothing to do with houseruling, but the fact that there is a difference to requiring magic items (3E), and requiring a bonus to certain stats (4E)... In the standard rules, the required bonus is normally granted by magic items, but it doesn't have to be. So long as the assumed bonus still exists, magic items can be eliminated. [/QUOTE]

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