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<blockquote data-quote="monboesen" data-source="post: 2471297" data-attributes="member: 4647">What can be conjured is up to the whim of the DM (one of Montes key issues with D&amp;D), I would look at CR as much as HD as the DM. ANd there would be no DRagon conjuring. All in all I think in Iron heroes the fighters are supposed to do the killing, magic is for accomplishing what fighting can't. There will be no blaster mages, but enchantment, illusion, conjuration and transmutation masters can still do plenty of stuff. Remember with no magic items there are tons of things that you take for granted in standard D&amp;D that most classes just can't do in Iron heroes.Like flying, breathing water, surviving poison or strong elemental damage, healing during combat, turning invisible and so on. Magic will often be reserved for situations where it is absolutely needed. Anyways the Arcanist is a far better combatant than a D&amp;D Wizard or Sorcerer. Better BAB, unlimited supply of a reasonable ranged attack (that bypasses DR or armor), tons of skills and feats.You can make an archmage whose presence may be enough to scare his enemy away (Overwhelming presence) or a Tumbling Sneak attacking master of Eldritch darts (Tumble+Precise shot).There are lots of options, try them out before trying to turn everything back into D&amp;D without magic items.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="monboesen, post: 2471297, member: 4647"] What can be conjured is up to the whim of the DM (one of Montes key issues with D&D), I would look at CR as much as HD as the DM. ANd there would be no DRagon conjuring. All in all I think in Iron heroes the fighters are supposed to do the killing, magic is for accomplishing what fighting can't. There will be no blaster mages, but enchantment, illusion, conjuration and transmutation masters can still do plenty of stuff. Remember with no magic items there are tons of things that you take for granted in standard D&D that most classes just can't do in Iron heroes. Like flying, breathing water, surviving poison or strong elemental damage, healing during combat, turning invisible and so on. Magic will often be reserved for situations where it is absolutely needed. Anyways the Arcanist is a far better combatant than a D&D Wizard or Sorcerer. Better BAB, unlimited supply of a reasonable ranged attack (that bypasses DR or armor), tons of skills and feats. You can make an archmage whose presence may be enough to scare his enemy away (Overwhelming presence) or a Tumbling Sneak attacking master of Eldritch darts (Tumble+Precise shot). There are lots of options, try them out before trying to turn everything back into D&D without magic items. [/QUOTE]

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