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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 2112044" data-attributes="member: 94">I guess you should read those 5 pages again. Perhaps you do, yes. You need to be able to strike the dragon. You need to be able to strike the incorporeal, flying, armor-bypassing, level-draining spectre, and according to mearls, you will to be able to do it in such a way that the spectre remains CR7. The spectre will be a cakewalk for four 7th level Iron Lore heroes.Mike made the interesting distinction between story elements and system elements, that the ability to fly was a story element, and that Iron Lore "fixes" system-based CR issues in a way that other low-magic systems have failed to do.If he doesn't "fix" the dragon's ability to fly (as just the easiest of examples), then the dragon will still prove too difficult for its CR.If the dragon is able to retreat to the skies until its breath weapon is ready to go again, he will crush the PCs. They can't bypass its DR (a system element mearls has already said he has not changed), they have no magic weapons, they have no magic healing, and they can't fly.Whatever fixes Iron Lore may have in store for player characters, I can't imagine that every PC should expect to be able to knock a dragon out of the sky with his bow.If the "fix" is a story fix-- that is, the GM creates a cave nearby for the PCs to retreat, or they get some friendly magical assistance to help them fly, or defeat the dragon's DR, or its breath weapon, or what have you, then that doesn't really address the system issues of playing any monster directly out of any d20 book. Every low-magic game makes certain assumptions about the GMs ability to properly manage the genre-- or, "style of game" -- so I'm sort of back on my heels again. While I said earlier that it seems mearls has moved what system elements he could out from under that umbrella of story, I'm still left waiting for this silver bullet of game design.I recently ran a low-magic adventure with a dragon as the final villain. I allowed the PCs to assault the dragon in its lair, and eventually they prevailed, despite having no magic weapons-- and despite me not having Iron Lore at my fingertips.Wulf</blockquote>

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