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Iron Lore: Malhavoc's Surprise?
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<blockquote data-quote="Dr. Strangemonkey" data-source="post: 2245923" data-attributes="member: 6533"><p>Well, I don't think we are that far off on what a knight is, but for me the core issue is that a knight, by his very title, identifies himself as a mounted warrior. And a knight is that regardless of whether he is wealthy, landed, or has any sort of complicated feudal obligation. For me, it's perfectly appropriate for Mordred to be a knight as well as Galahad or the meanest freerider in the service of Frederick Barbarosa. That we see an ethos of honor and authority associated with such a fighter is a symptom of how he fights. Getting a horse to go into combat with you requires character in a way that other fighting styles do not. And where they do it is a different character. An archer may be thought of as sneaky and crafty and that's a symptom of his fighting style. Same with a horseman.</p><p></p><p>Iron Lore makes classes that are more powerful in their specialized area. An archer is way better at ranged combat than non-archers. So a knight or cavalier should be better at mounted combat than non-knights or cavaliers. Both classes should have ways of dealing with other scenarios that are reflective of their specialty and effective, but their focus should be clear. Other classes should be good enough at those classes specialties so that you don't have to have them, but they shouldn't have that same level of uber-competence.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See I can't disagree that horse-riding should be something everyone is capable of doing. But at the same time I couldn't disagree that ranged combat, multiple attacks, and wearing armor are things that most people should have some capacity or potential capacity to achieve.</p><p></p><p>But I think that being a mounted fighter, in both fiction and real life, has an ethos to it that is at least as strong as that of an archer. If riding a horse is your real focus than it forces tactics and behavior on you in the same way that recognizing the skills and tactics of a focus in ranged combat will.</p><p></p><p>I think I've already done some work to differentiate the personal ethos of a horseman versus that of other fighters, but I think it's also important to differentiate the combat ethos.</p><p></p><p>An armiger on a horse is there to get extra speed to go into where he can take blows and give them without being at the mercy of arrows.</p><p></p><p>A harrier on a horse is there get extra speed and power to go into where he give out his huge number of blows.</p><p></p><p>An archer on a horse is there get extra speed and power so that he can avoid taking blows.</p><p></p><p>A horseman is there not just for the extra speed and power but also the sense, strength, and endurance of the horse itself. Where the above classes use the horse to lengthen the range of their initial tactics, the range of the horse encapsulates the tactics of the horseman. Rather than charging in and getting stuck in, as the armiger or harrier would, the horseman charges in strikes using the power of the horse and then rushes out or through his enemies to look for the next best striking point. Rather than aiming and avoiding blows, as the archer would, the horseman uses the speed of his mount and the range of his weapon to limit the tactics of his enemy and to strike at him indiscriminately but strategicly ensuring that his opponents are properly herded and baited.</p><p></p><p>And that's the horseman's power off of a horse as well. The hunter uses his knowledge of the enemy to draw them into traps, the horseman uses his knowledge of timing, battlefield psychology, and movement to herd his enemies and strike for maximum effect to adapt not the battlefield but his enemies tactics. Where many classes understand the value of shock in a charge the horseman understands the value of movement. Melee battles between horseman on foot are long periods of maneuvering and positioning punctuated by fast sharp powerful exchanges broken as quickly as they were engaged and ending with both men cut in a thousand places but one man's head lying beside the other.</p><p></p><p>There is more I could say on the particular skills and general character that are more or less unique to horseman or cavaliers, but I shall leave it at this.</p><p></p><p>I certainly don't mean to be hijacking the thread, but, again, it is the very specificity and content of Iron Lore that provokes in me the desire to see this archetype done right. If all goes well I look forward to building such a class or seeing such a prestige class shipped with the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dr. Strangemonkey, post: 2245923, member: 6533"] Well, I don't think we are that far off on what a knight is, but for me the core issue is that a knight, by his very title, identifies himself as a mounted warrior. And a knight is that regardless of whether he is wealthy, landed, or has any sort of complicated feudal obligation. For me, it's perfectly appropriate for Mordred to be a knight as well as Galahad or the meanest freerider in the service of Frederick Barbarosa. That we see an ethos of honor and authority associated with such a fighter is a symptom of how he fights. Getting a horse to go into combat with you requires character in a way that other fighting styles do not. And where they do it is a different character. An archer may be thought of as sneaky and crafty and that's a symptom of his fighting style. Same with a horseman. Iron Lore makes classes that are more powerful in their specialized area. An archer is way better at ranged combat than non-archers. So a knight or cavalier should be better at mounted combat than non-knights or cavaliers. Both classes should have ways of dealing with other scenarios that are reflective of their specialty and effective, but their focus should be clear. Other classes should be good enough at those classes specialties so that you don't have to have them, but they shouldn't have that same level of uber-competence. See I can't disagree that horse-riding should be something everyone is capable of doing. But at the same time I couldn't disagree that ranged combat, multiple attacks, and wearing armor are things that most people should have some capacity or potential capacity to achieve. But I think that being a mounted fighter, in both fiction and real life, has an ethos to it that is at least as strong as that of an archer. If riding a horse is your real focus than it forces tactics and behavior on you in the same way that recognizing the skills and tactics of a focus in ranged combat will. I think I've already done some work to differentiate the personal ethos of a horseman versus that of other fighters, but I think it's also important to differentiate the combat ethos. An armiger on a horse is there to get extra speed to go into where he can take blows and give them without being at the mercy of arrows. A harrier on a horse is there get extra speed and power to go into where he give out his huge number of blows. An archer on a horse is there get extra speed and power so that he can avoid taking blows. A horseman is there not just for the extra speed and power but also the sense, strength, and endurance of the horse itself. Where the above classes use the horse to lengthen the range of their initial tactics, the range of the horse encapsulates the tactics of the horseman. Rather than charging in and getting stuck in, as the armiger or harrier would, the horseman charges in strikes using the power of the horse and then rushes out or through his enemies to look for the next best striking point. Rather than aiming and avoiding blows, as the archer would, the horseman uses the speed of his mount and the range of his weapon to limit the tactics of his enemy and to strike at him indiscriminately but strategicly ensuring that his opponents are properly herded and baited. And that's the horseman's power off of a horse as well. The hunter uses his knowledge of the enemy to draw them into traps, the horseman uses his knowledge of timing, battlefield psychology, and movement to herd his enemies and strike for maximum effect to adapt not the battlefield but his enemies tactics. Where many classes understand the value of shock in a charge the horseman understands the value of movement. Melee battles between horseman on foot are long periods of maneuvering and positioning punctuated by fast sharp powerful exchanges broken as quickly as they were engaged and ending with both men cut in a thousand places but one man's head lying beside the other. There is more I could say on the particular skills and general character that are more or less unique to horseman or cavaliers, but I shall leave it at this. I certainly don't mean to be hijacking the thread, but, again, it is the very specificity and content of Iron Lore that provokes in me the desire to see this archetype done right. If all goes well I look forward to building such a class or seeing such a prestige class shipped with the game. [/QUOTE]
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