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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mac Callum" data-source="post: 2253336" data-attributes="member: 17035">Maybe for "most people" you'd be right, but not for me.  I'm talking humans with a decent Int (for a Fighter).  Not enough.  I want my Knight to know his lineage back 12 generations and know how he's related to three different Kings (Knowledge (Royalty) 3 Ranks).  I don't expect him to forge his own plate armor, but he should be able to fix a broken harness or a broken crossbow, shouldn't he? (Craft (Armorsmith & Weaponsmithing) 1 Rank each).  He doesn't just ride his mount with skill, he trained the beast himself and is responsible for its care (Ride, Handle Animal, 6 ranks each).In short, he's a professional.My Samurai should have several Ranks in Perform (Haiku), and even more ranks in Knowledge (Royalty), plus some in Diplomacy.  He isn't some uncouth yahoo from the countryside.  Besides being a peerless horseman and dangerous fighter he is a respectable gentleman who knows the 4 ways of pouring tea.I want my Rangers to sing ancient ballads in languages that haven't been spoken in a thousand years about people whom the oldest of the elves have almost forgotten.  I want a Paladin who owns a vinyard and, when not adventuring, brews a mean bottle of sacramental wine.  When adventuring he can speak with the Druid intelligently about the six best kinds of soil.That's what I meant by rounding out.  D&D doesn't let me do that.As others said, not to co-opt, but to cover for.  Every class should be dispensible, so no one is forced into a role.  That means more than one class has to have more than crappy access to Disable Device, Sneak, Diplomacy, etc.There's a good argument for that.  Assume Max ranks in these skills, distribute the rest of your skills as you see fit. Preach it.I really hope Iron Lore allows me to do the kind of adventures I read about as a kid.  I've been dying to do a campaign set in Midkemia, Ray Feist's world from the Riftwar series.  That world's pretty magical, with dragons, immortal warriors, undead, spellcasters, etc., but D&D is so way beyond that I can't even bring the two within shouting distance of each other.  For one thing, I think there's one magical sword in the whole series, and it's only magical because a quasi-God hid a spark of his essence it it.  There sure aren't any humans running around making Flaming Longswords +2 at the drop of a hat.  The one other magical item I can recall off the top of my head duplicated (in essence) an minor Weather effect which created fog over a square mile max; and using it almost killed the Magician.For God's sake, I can't even run The Wizard of Earthsea with D&D, and a Wizard was the main frickin' character.Anyway, my point is I TOTALLY agree with you here.(I guess luckily for WoTC they have games like Neverwinter Nights to draw in new fans, and authors like Ray Salvatore faithfully cranking out their d20 Soaps)Hm, good bet.  Giving them access to spells or a high BAB doesn't make sense, so in IL, what else is there?  Maybe that's what their tokens do.I can see that.  I wonder what else being a specialist gets you.  Given the limited nature of spellcasting, maybe only Necromancers can make undead?  AU/AE has spoiled me into thinking that spellcasters are incredibly broad and flexible, but perhaps not this time.I know, it almost seems too many.  I left out some stuff I thought would be a good fit to include the "People Skills", because the character description said he has a silver tongue.Wherever "Decipher Script" goes, I bet it's grouped with "Forgery."</blockquote>

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