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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dr. Strangemonkey" data-source="post: 2274014" data-attributes="member: 6533">hmm, the clarification is sort of helpful, actually.  Though I would again point out the d20 design philosophy bit may be a poor attitude to take in this debate.  I mean are you assuming there are mooks or aren't you?  The assumption makes a big difference in your story or game.  You seem to be assuming post-clarification that there are mooks, or schmucks, but that they should be able to hold people at bay effectively.  It's a bit of weird trick you seem to want a game to pull off here for a character to have both rules dictated respect and disdain for a given class of extra, but we don't yet know if or how IL deals with the issue, A, and, B, I don't know how well you can argue that there has to be a consistent response.  It may very well be that there are any number of ways in which one guy sees himself at a disadvantage against numbers with the drop on him.  I'm not certain that all of them will apply all the time to every situation.  It's certainly not all that consistent within the genre(s) in question.  It's also certainly true that we have yet to see from Mike or the playtesters any indication that there are really superhero levels of concern over the ease of overcoming mooks.  Were they there I would expect to see the lack of threat from mooks touted as a feature as a frequent complaint of super-hero games is that they give mooks too much power.Second off, I doubt any heroic fantasy character does much casually, unless they are very serious about being casual.  There is both genre variety and disconnect at work here.  The Musketeers are certainly part of the Heroic Adventure/Fantasy genre and they certainly delight in fighting hordes of opponents, but they also sneak about in palaces.  Even where you willingly hold small fortresses with six men against a regiment you still sneak about in palaces.It will be interesting to see how IL deals with issues like overwhelming numbers, homefield advantage or disadvantage, and opponents having 'the drop.'   Personally I'd prefer to see a set of system level rules that can be added or dropped rather than anything inherent in the characters.  Conan and BCCS had interesting approaches to this, in their multiple opponents and advantage rules respectively, but neither of them had much of a take on the 'homefield' advantage commonly given to mooks in their stronghold.  The mention of rules for Zones in the last playtest indicates at least some sort of approach to it in IL, so I won't be surprised if there are other solutions offered to numbers and 'the drop' as well.If not those are certainly the level of rules that are easiest to drop in from other systems.</blockquote>

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