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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 2281437" data-attributes="member: 32164">First off, Irda/Mac Callum thanks for the compliment - it's greatly appreciated.I think this is a difference of perception between the two of us about what Arrow Ladder actually IS, thematically speaking. You see it as &quot;over-the-top wahoo,&quot; whereas to me, it's more of a gimicky, &quot;what a skilled archer could actually DO with arrows&quot; kinda thing. I confess that it's on the outer edge, but I don't really think it's &quot;over the top.&quot;By way of comparison, I had similar discussions on the WotC boards when D&amp;D 3.5 introduced the feat &quot;Manyshot.&quot; The immediate reaction by many was that it was WAY over the top. I, however, disagreed. Now, to a certain extent, I'll admit I'm forgiving on archery feats because I've seen (and messed around with doing) some pretty amazing archery tricks in real life. For example, after Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves came out, I loaded a couple arrows in my (far-from-heroically-strong) 30-lb. bow and, well, tried to replicate the &quot;Manyshot&quot; trick. For the record, I did not modify the arrows in any way (as Robin did in the film) to make the shot easier. In the process, I put two arrows into a target from a distance of 15-20 yards. Neither hit the center, and they were separated by about 3' of distance. Both, however, did actually hit and STICK. My conclusion was that this &quot;stunt&quot; separates the power of the shot between the arrows. Ergo, with a 30 lb. bow, penetration (w/2 arrows) about equals that of a single arrow from a 15 lb. bow (maybe a bit less due to losses). With a 60-100 lb. draw weight, I imagine the stunt would be effective up to about 3 arrows (the limit for the feat, IIRC). So, the Robin Hood: Men in Tights arrow bandolier is goofy...but Marvel's Hawkeye shooting 3 arrows with his 200 lb. bow(!) (and dropping them effectively &quot;in a line&quot;) isn't. Impressive, sure, but not quite over the top. And I see arrow ladder the same way. Obviously, not everyone will. But to me, it isn't thematically that far off.I confess to being as curious about the spectre situation as anyone. Refresh my memory, can spectres attack while incorporeal?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 2281437, member: 32164"] First off, Irda/Mac Callum thanks for the compliment - it's greatly appreciated. I think this is a difference of perception between the two of us about what Arrow Ladder actually IS, thematically speaking. You see it as "over-the-top wahoo," whereas to me, it's more of a gimicky, "what a skilled archer could actually DO with arrows" kinda thing. I confess that it's on the outer edge, but I don't really think it's "over the top." By way of comparison, I had similar discussions on the WotC boards when D&D 3.5 introduced the feat "Manyshot." The immediate reaction by many was that it was WAY over the top. I, however, disagreed. Now, to a certain extent, I'll admit I'm forgiving on archery feats because I've seen (and messed around with doing) some pretty amazing archery tricks in real life. For example, after [i]Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves[/i] came out, I loaded a couple arrows in my (far-from-heroically-strong) 30-lb. bow and, well, tried to replicate the "Manyshot" trick. For the record, I did not modify the arrows in any way (as Robin did in the film) to make the shot easier. In the process, I put two arrows into a target from a distance of 15-20 yards. Neither hit the center, and they were separated by about 3' of distance. Both, however, did actually hit and STICK. My conclusion was that this "stunt" separates the power of the shot between the arrows. Ergo, with a 30 lb. bow, penetration (w/2 arrows) about equals that of a single arrow from a 15 lb. bow (maybe a bit less due to losses). With a 60-100 lb. draw weight, I imagine the stunt would be effective up to about 3 arrows (the limit for the feat, IIRC). So, the [i]Robin Hood: Men in Tights[/i] arrow bandolier is goofy...but Marvel's Hawkeye shooting 3 arrows with his 200 lb. bow(!) (and dropping them effectively "in a line") isn't. Impressive, sure, but not quite over the top. And I see arrow ladder the same way. Obviously, not everyone will. But to me, it isn't thematically that far off. I confess to being as curious about the spectre situation as anyone. Refresh my memory, can spectres attack while incorporeal? [/QUOTE]

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