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<blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 2288638" data-attributes="member: 94">Fair enough.&nbsp;A point I have acknowledged and am obviously still trying to overcome...It's not &quot;out there&quot; at all. I refer you back to my edit: It is a major part of Mike's own design process to address CR. Clearly he is intent on addressing the mechanics of CR. His point is that CR should NOT be guesswork, and that he has some value to offer the gaming community in bringing the focus of his mind, and a scientific approach, to it.Determining CR is not an art. Determining whether a particular CR applies in all circumstances (particularly the circumstances of your own campaign), I will agree, IS an art. But CR is an absolute, it is a baseline; and it has to be, in order to be of any value to a DM at all. CR cannot be determined due to the specifics of party makeup, tactical position, or the vagaries of countless campaigns. That's the fault of the EL system, not the CR system. The EL does not scale properly as character level and CR advance. It fails to address the exponential advance of power with respect to increasing CR. A CR2 creature is twice as powerful as a CR1 creature, but a CR20 creature is not twice as powerful as a CR19 creature. Yet, according to the EL system in the RAW, the relative power difference is equivalent. That's absurdly false on its face and obvious to anyone who has played high level D&amp;D, as you seem to have noticed.I disagree with your second point (low-CRs suddenly becoming a threat to high level PCs).I'll refer you to a greater authority: Upper_Krust. Seek out his threads in the House Rules forum, and find a link for his Challenge Ratings document. Otherwise you can email me and I will send you what you need.Wulf</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wulf Ratbane, post: 2288638, member: 94"] Fair enough. A point I have acknowledged and am obviously still trying to overcome... It's not "out there" at all. I refer you back to my edit: It is a major part of Mike's own design process to address CR. Clearly he is intent on addressing the mechanics of CR. His point is that CR should NOT be guesswork, and that he has some value to offer the gaming community in bringing the focus of his mind, and a scientific approach, to it. Determining CR is not an art. Determining whether a particular CR applies in all circumstances (particularly the circumstances of your own campaign), I will agree, IS an art. But CR is an absolute, it is a baseline; and it has to be, in order to be of any value to a DM at all. CR cannot be determined due to the specifics of party makeup, tactical position, or the vagaries of countless campaigns. That's the fault of the EL system, not the CR system. The EL does not scale properly as character level and CR advance. It fails to address the exponential advance of power with respect to increasing CR. A CR2 creature is twice as powerful as a CR1 creature, but a CR20 creature is not twice as powerful as a CR19 creature. Yet, according to the EL system in the RAW, the relative power difference is equivalent. That's absurdly false on its face and obvious to anyone who has played high level D&D, as you seem to have noticed. I disagree with your second point (low-CRs suddenly becoming a threat to high level PCs). I'll refer you to a greater authority: Upper_Krust. Seek out his threads in the House Rules forum, and find a link for his Challenge Ratings document. Otherwise you can email me and I will send you what you need. Wulf [/QUOTE]

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