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Message: <blockquote data-quote="carpedavid" data-source="post: 2326373" data-attributes="member: 6971">Round 2, Match 3: Warden vs. Wulf RatbaneGo read <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2320822&postcount=249" target="_blank">Warden</a> and <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2321075&postcount=250" target="_blank">Wulf Ratbane's</a> entries, and then we'll get started with a comparison of the ingredients.The first ingredient on the list is the Guardian Naga. Warden's Aaethil appears to the PCs while polymorphed into a beautiful elven woman, which she might as well be, since there's no reason for her to be a naga. It's true that Guardian Naga are usually lawful good, so it would make sense that such a creature would come to the aid of someone in trouble – but that's it.He comes up with a clever explanation about how the devil beats up the necromancer because the naga has the ability to detect thoughts, but that all takes place outside the experience of the PCs, and it's something that they're unlikely to ever learn. It's an extraordinarily weak use of the ingredient.Wulf's Guardian Naga, on the other hand, literally guards something, so he's a step up on Warden. He also ties the creature's reptilian heritage to the dead dragon, at least as part of a red-herring to distract the PCs. What I want to know is how the naga got there. He mentions that the heroes who defeated the dragon "...were unable to completely destroy him, so they left the guardian here while they searched for a way to finish the job."  Was the naga one of the original heroes? Guardian Naga isn't on any of the Summon Monster/Nature's Ally lists. Did they carry a freeze-dried version with them for just such an occasion?Additionally, it's been over a thousand years since the dragon was killed. I wonder what the poor beast eats? Perhaps she survives on a diet of unfortunate adventurers. This leads me to another question, though – the skull supposedly prophesizes, but the questioner has to provide it with a sacrifice of blood. Does the Lawful Good naga just sit by while powerful evil people dump blood all over the place?For that matter, how does anybody get to ask the skull anything, since Wulf makes it pretty clear that she greats anyone who enters the cave with a barrage of spells? Perhaps she's so hungry that anyone who brings her a hamburger gets by. Perhaps there are answers to these questions, but they're certainly not provided here. So, Wulf leads by a smidge at this point, simply for giving the naga something to guard.Next on the list is the Portable Hole. Warden gives us another horrendous use of an ingredient by making the portable hole simply a place where a ring is. Huh? Just a ring? Why not just put the ring in a regular old bag, or simply set it out in the open? It's not like getting into a portable hole is much of a challenge. Getting an acrophobic woman to climb down the side of a tower during an ice storm is, but that's those aren't the ingredients in question. Oy.Wulf, on the other hand, makes up for his Guardian Naga use with this one. While it may seem silly at first blush, having the clever evil woman disguise the portable hole as a skirt is just a downright clever bit of misdirection. Moreover, it ties into the Torn Dress and Improved Sunder ingredient later in the adventure. It's also interactive – at least, if the PCs figure out what's going on, they're certainly going to want to interact with it. I think, frankly, that Wulf has taken the concept of de-pantsing to a whole new level with this one. He pulls firmly into the lead with this ingredient use.Improved Sunder is next, and I guess I didn't realize just how difficult it would be to integrate each of these feats into the entries of this round. Of course, that's all the more reason to use them again in the future. Here, Warden actually makes some progress by deliberately choosing to transform the lovesick Darren into a devil that has the Improved Sunder feat. Fair enough. I am disappointed, though, that Warden didn't then turn around and suggest that the PCs use their own sundering abilities to take out the amulet that's oh-so prominently displayed.Wulf, on the other hand, does a surprisingly good job with integrating this ingredient. It makes a ton of sense that Breda would place a higher priority on preventing sharp, pointy things from getting too close to her skirt than about directly taking out the PCs. Therefore, her use of Improved Sunder works well (and is actually one of the first examples of why someone would try to sunder a weapon that makes sense to me). Wulf continues to gain on his competitor, here.This brings us to the Torn Dress ingredient. I'm assuming that the dress was the inspiration for the wedding scenario in Warden's entry. It's brought to the church as proof that the bride-to-be has indeed been kidnapped, which gives the PCs the evidence they might need to go after the bad guys. My only objection is that it isn't particularly interactive. It's brought to the PCs, instead of being found by them somehow, and, once seen, really doesn't have an importance. On the other hand, if this is an especially traditional society, the sight of a torn wedding dress will probably elicit extreme reactions from both the townspeople and the PCs. Kudos to Warden for the good use of an ingredient.Wulf's Torn Dress is one of potential – a goal of the adventure rather than an item they encounter in that state. The ingredient use sinks a little in that regard, but it is buoyed by its ties to the Portable Hole and Improved Sunder ingredients. Warden gains back a bit of the ground he lost initially.He loses that ground, though with his use of Ice Storm. While it makes sense thematically, the gelugon is an ice demon, after all, it fails mechanically. According to the description of the spell, the area of effect is a 20-ft radius, 40-ft high cylinder, but he describes a tower 500-ft high, completely surrounded by this ice storm. While the gelugon can cast this spell at will, it only has a duration of one round. Would it be cool if a gelugon could surround a 500-ft high tower with a storm of ice and snow? Hell yeah! Can he actually do it? Hell no! This is such a fundamental mechanical problem, that I have to penalize him for this ingredient. And no, I don't buy the argument of "Well, I'm not going to let some silly rules stand in the way of a cool scene." I'm not attributing that quote to Warden, but I know there are people out there in spectator land who are probably thinking it. This is a shared world, between the players and the DM. If the DM starts randomly breaking the shared laws of said world, then the trust between them is put at risk.Wulf, by contrast, includes the Ice Storm as an obstacle that the PCs will run into. It's not a magical ice storm, just a mundane one, but it serves to create a believable environment while the PCs are ascending the mountain. He even includes a nice, tidy mechanical effect to drive the effect home. It's not the most creative use of an ingredient I've seen, but it's damn solid, and that's what I'm looking for.The last ingredient is Acrophobia, and, correspondingly, both contestants have included something tall in their entries. Warden gives us a tall tower, and Wulf gives us a mountain. Wulf uses Acrophobia in two places: as a bit of misdirection on the part of Breda, and as the result of the naga's phantasmal killer spell. Both uses are awfully weak. First, Breda claims that she can't make it to the summit of the mountain, because she's afraid of heights. However, she offers to come along, just stopping short of the summit. I'm sorry, but I know people with acrophobia that can't get on roller coasters. I know it's supposed to be a lie, but it's not a terribly convincing one, no matter how high her bluff score. Of course, that might be the point, so I'll give Wulf a pass there.Second, the phantasmal killer spell doesn't just generate an abstract fear – it generates a concrete illusion (how's that for an oxymoron) of a monster that's trying to do horrible things to the victim. I can forgive this to some extent, since this isn't a mechanical problem, just a flavor one, but it's still weak.Warden's use is equally weak. I know that the woman hanging on for dear life at the top of a tower is acrophobic, but the PCs aren't really affected by it. With a 12th level group of adventurers coming after her, the choice to marry Darren or climb down the side of the tower is a false one. If I'm leading a party at 12th – 15th level, I'm flying up, grabbing the girl, and snagging the portable hole on the way down while the rest of my party keeps the devil busy. Screw climbing up through the tower.At this point, Wulf is really, really far ahead. But the judgment isn't over! There's still the analysis of playability to do. Can Warden stage a comeback? Does Wulf toss it all out the window? Let's find out.Both entries suffer from having only one hook. In Warden's case, NPC after NPC will implore the PCs for help until they accept. While I have no doubt that even a remotely-good aligned party would bite, it still comes across as heavy handed. Wulf on the other hand, has an evil priestess attempt to bluff the PCs into accepting her mission, which could definitely be problematic. If she doesn't convince them, or they realize what she's really up to, then the adventure could go awry. However, if they figure out what she's really up to, they might decide to head her off at the pass anyway, so it's sort of a wash. Neither contestant gains any ground here.From a design perspective, Wulf's entry only suffers from that particular issue. If the PCs figure out what Breda is up to, then things might go to hell earlier than planned. Wulf does drop some clues about how the adventure would play if this scenario does come to pass, but doesn't address it in depth.Warden's entry, on the other hand, has a major problem: the adventure is more interesting for the DM than the PCs. I appreciate the look into the antagonist's mind – and it does serve the stated purpose of allowing the DM to react to the PCs, but the events in the background are far more interesting than what the PCs have to interact with. This was a problem with Warden's first-round entry, as well, and I hope that it's not indicative of his normal DMing.By this point, there's not much of a reason to continue. If it isn't obvious by now, <spoiler: highlight to view>[spoiler]Wulf Ratbane[/spoiler]</spoiler> graduates to the finals. It wasn't his strongest entry, but it was better than his opponent's, and that's all that counts.</blockquote>

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