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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorhook" data-source="post: 4522482" data-attributes="member: 58401">I suppose you must've experienced it differently than I did. Subjective experience and all that.I'll admit that the 3E->4E changeover was compounded by the fact that 3E hadn't been languishing to even remotely the same extent that 2nd Ed. AD&D had been. (Whether it would have with time, or whether 3E/3.5E was somehow more resistant to 'languishing' due to game design, I have no idea.)I disagree here, Psion. I think the "philosophical shift" is community-based, not rules-/system-based. I believe that part of why 4E is as popular as it is (and it is popular among an economically-significant portion of roleplayers) is that it fits well with the type of games that many people have been playing over the past few years*. The philosophies that guided the design of 4E are visibly present in 3.5E, in hindsight.*The extension of this is that a sizable portion of players were playing 3.5E as a "different" game than the group mentioned above was. Nobody was right or wrong, of course, but there were at least two major mindsets in the D&D community, which was exacerbated by the release of a new edition. I posit that these, the disparate philosophies of the community, is the underlying cause of the edition wars of late.I'm gonna have to ask you to supply a quote on this one. It sounds much to opportunistic, like the words of that other kid on the playground, who swears on his mother's grave that your favorite flavour of ice cream is made from poop and dead babies.I'm honestly not even sure what you mean by, "they rebuilt the whole 4E system from scratch". Did you mean, "they rebuilt the whole D&D game-system from scratch for 4E"? Or perhaps you're redundantly suggesting that, "they redesigned the mechanics of 4E several times before settling on the current system," which is obviously true? It obviously can't be the former, given that the mechanics of 4E highly resemble those of 3.5E:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A unified core mechanic: d20 + modifiers, higher being better.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Races, Classes, and Levels determined by XP.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, from 3 to 18, determined at character creation by point-buy or rolling, and with ability modifiers equal to "(Ability -10)/2".</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fort, Reflex, and Will defenses. (Except that in 4E, the attacker rolls rather than the defender.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Feats and Skills.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Daily powers (Vancian casting, per day attacks), Encounter powers (barbarian rage, examples from ToB), At-Will powers (Warlock attacks, Reserve feats).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Combat Roles (Fighters as "Defenders/Tanks", Rogues as "Strikers/Skirmishers/Lurkers", Wizards as "Blasters/Controllers", Clerics as "Healers/Leaders")</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Numerous conceptual/superficial D&D elements, including those that have not yet been published, but have been announced:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Classes: Artificer, Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, and more.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Races: Drow, Dwarf, Eladrin (reconcepted), Elf, Genasi, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Elf, Halfling, Half-Orc, Human, Minotaur, Shifter, Tiefling (reconcepted), Warforged, and more.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Feats: Numerous examples, including Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting, and Weapon Focus</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skills: Basically the same between 3.5E and 4E, just reorganized.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Equipment: Numerous examples of mundane and magical equipment, including bastard swords, full plate armor, hand crossbows, shortbows and longbows, Sunswords, Flaming weapons, Cloaks of Resistance, and more.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Attacks, Powers, Rituals, and Spells: Numerous examples including Turn Undead, Lay on Hands, Fireball, Cleave, Eldritch Blast, Magic Missile, Invisibility, Fly, Raise Dead, Gentle Repose, Lightning Bolt, Meteor Swarm, Cure Serious Wounds, and more.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Class Features and Concepts: Numerous examples including dual-wielding, animal companions, spellbooks, divine characters with patron deities, weapon specialization/mastery, and sneak attack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monsters: Numerous examples including Aboleths, Beholders, Demons (Balors, Vrocks, Hezrous, and more), Devils (Imps, Pit Fiends, Gelugons, Succubi*, and more), Dire Animals, Dragons (Black, Blue, Copper, Gold, Green, Red, Silver, White, and more, in a variety of ages), Duergar, Drow, Elementals, Genies, Gnolls, Gnomes, Goblins (and Hobgoblins and Bugbears), Mind Flayers, Rakshasas, Rocs, Slaad, the Tarrasque, Undead (Ghosts, Ghouls, Mummies, Specters, Vampires, Wights, Zombies, and more), and many others.</li> </ul></li> </ul>In the face of these similarities, the differences between 3.5E and 4E are mere tweaks....Now, what were you saying about 4E being entirely different from the previous edition? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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