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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hammerhead" data-source="post: 312048" data-attributes="member: 73">Yes, there are lots of fun defenes.  And SR.However, look at the hoops that Power Word spells have.  Power Word: Kill: level 9, Death effect (blocked by death ward), has HP limitations.  Irresistable Phantasmal Killer: level 8, mind affecting (blocked by mind blank), no other limitations, requires a feat.  Even considering the feat cost, the irresistable spell seems far superior.And Irresistable spells can enter play faster than the countermeasures in some cases.  Charm, Hold and Suggestion can be used before Mind Black enters the equation.And some no saves are better than others.  Magic Missile and Searing Light don't have saves.  But they also only do damage, and rather moderate amounts at that.  You have to get to the high level Power Words and forcecages to see spells without saves that can instantly knock out an enemy.  Irresistable spells don't have the HP limitations that Power words do, and can be applied to any effect.  Even though Blindness and Hold Person are equivalent - at least for clerics - you don't see Power Word: Hold whereas you do see Blind.  Some things are just supposed to have saves.</blockquote>