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Message: <blockquote data-quote="apoptosis" data-source="post: 318914" data-attributes="member: 3226">Generally +4 for no save (for 1/2 reflex saves) is pretty dang weak.For most cases even maximize at +3 is generally better except in specific circumstances (cold/fire type and evasion).60pts save for 30 (fireball 10th level)or 35 average no save.Could do 5 points less but could so 25 points more at 1 level less.Empower x2 is much better.I would make it +2 or +3 at worst for your (nerferd version).It can be useful but if the opponent would have failed their save anyways it is less useful (obvious statement i know)IMC...We have Hunting Spell which is at +2 and removes a save for spells that have 1/2 reflex.  It was taken by a player and seems to be in balance.Of course I play in a game where many of the mechanics are somewhat different (grim'n'gritty combat rules and evasion was changed...allows 2 seperate rolls to save for 1/2 damage instead of 1 roll for no damage).Apoptosis</blockquote>