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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 1080555" data-attributes="member: 158">I should know better, but here's my dissection:1.) Extensive rules giving players ammo to argue.We didn't go to the books so much back then because it wasn't there. We still argued about rules in my group, it was just whether the DM gave a bad call or not. Rules lawyers will exist with or without rules, in my experience (I know, because I'm one of them. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />)2.) The social skills have really taken a beating in 3e; 17th levels can hit a DC 40.While learning to socialize is a good thing, playing D&D will still not make you a smooth orator, nor will it make you take to heart the ability to smooth-talk or persuade another. To me, roleplaying a good negotiator while your character's abilities are mediocre is CHEATING, pure and simple. Thus, a good combatant sacrifices social skills to be a good combatant, just as a good diplomat sacrifices combat skills.3.) 3e gets close to a computer game; encourages combat at the expense of roleplaying.My experience hasn't seen it; my groups have generally been more combative anyway, because we usually play it more socially than some groups, which could be why I've seen a change. If anything, we encourage more roleplay now than before, But I attribute that more to my and other DM's being influenced by the concert of fantastic roleplayers we interact with on ENWorld.4.) GMs have a lot more to do and consider than in past games; so much more work has to go into mechanics these days.Ah, the crux of the argument; One I agree AND disagree with. If you detail EVERY nuance of every monster and NPC every time, you'll go nuts, and burn out. I agree. But then, I don't do that much detail. I once posted "Quick-and-Dirty" NPC creation on these forums, and at Dragonsfoot; I live by those rules. If my players don't catch that my trolls are 1 or 2 points off on their attack bonuses, who's to care? They certainly don't, and I don't need to bog down story by knowing every skill that my NPC's have or don't have. The advantage to all that extra material is, I CAN KNOW these things, if I need to; otherwise, I carry on a piece of paper the same amount of stats I used to carry for monsters/NPC's for AD&D.Too many rules; even players & GM's get lost.True, but 90% of the rules are used EVERY session. The other 10% (from grappling to failed item saves) are par for the course of any RPG.5.) 3e encourages player vs. GM play!  nuff said.More needs to be said. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I'm afraid I don't understand how you feel the dynamic has changed.In all, I heavily agree there are more rules, but there's two differences:1- Core universal mechanics;2- Greater optional detail for the GM. Some Gm's treat it like it's not optional, but it is.</blockquote>

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