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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BiggusGeekus@Work" data-source="post: 1080564" data-attributes="member: 7828">I disagree.1.) Such extensive rules give players a lot of ammo when arguing over a GM call.This didn't happen in 1e and 2e because we were arguing over the arbitrary rather than the factual.NOW: Hey!  The orc moved within 5' of me!  I get an attack of opportunity!  What do you mean he tumbles out of my way?  It's not fair!THEN: You didn't say the orc was that close!  It's not fair!2.) Rules rather than roleplay: The social skills have really taken a beating in 3e. The reason they're taking a beating is because they're more in the forefront.  An 8 CHA character can have 20 ranks in Diplomacy.  In 1e there was no such skill and in 2e your skill was pretty much your CHA in most cases.  3.) 3e- the PnP PC game: Anyone else notice how close 3e gets to a computer game?Yes.  I love it.  What's wrong with codifying the names?  What's wrong with knowing that all elementals are immune to sleep rather than having to look it up in each individual monster description?  I see this as a strength.4.) GMs have a lot more to do and consider than in past games. Actually, I spend less time planning encounters.  Once you get the hang of the Encounter Level system, this stuff is a breeze.  A 2e DM planned out an adventure for me about six months ago.  He didn't look at the 3e rules much and encounters were either overwhelmingly powerful or boringly simple.  With ELs I can just plop stuff in and have a pretty good idea of how tough a fight its going to be.  If you're having a hard time, PCgen and other such programs will quickly pound out statblocks for you. And planning the story should take no more time than it did before.I LOVE how the players get to build their characters every level.  Before it took a couple of minutes.  Now they're really spending time on this stuff.  Not the number crunching, but thinking about where there character is and where it is going.  Big time conceptual stuff that I used to have to beg them to do.5.) There are so many rules that even players get lost.So you mess up a rule from time to time.  Big deal.  No harm, no foul.6.) 3e encourages player vs. GM play! nuff said.I have had the exact opposite.  Before everything was very abstract.  I remember as a kid, wondering who knew how to swim and who didn't.  The DM would decide it based on our backgrounds.  So suddenly we all came from oceanside towns and were the sons of wealthy scholars, so we could swim and read and have access to more money.  3e puts the kibosh on all that.Combats where foes teleport hundreds of feet are a thing of the past ("you said he was far away!" "Well, he's in melee now").  I'm not stuck with playing the same character I started with at 1st level.  And, most woderous of all, the monsters have templates and classes so even the humble orc is a possible villian of high order.God, I love 3e!</blockquote>

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