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<blockquote data-quote="satori01" data-source="post: 1996298" data-attributes="member: 7859">Perhaps I am not understanding you BU, I thought your primary argument was that WOTC spends so much time creating crunch, that people focus entirely upon statistics and neglect the more &quot;contextual&quot; components of playing the game.&nbsp;I disagree with this assertion, as in the example of a Paladin's detect evil ability additional flavor enhancers can be added quite easily to any abillity enhancing its flavor.&nbsp; D20 companies in many ways have not done enough to marriage game flavor with mechanical concepts, however I dont think 1e or 2e products were any better, indeed I believe they were often worse.&nbsp;Mike Mearls I believe is the cutting edge of flavorful mechanics, taking Ceremonial feats and ceremonies in AU improving on the ideas in the superb books Mystic Secrets and The Book of Iron Might,(though to be fair Iron Might is not an AU book but a great way of opening the restraing system of 3e combat).&nbsp;As for feats and classes requiring you to vete what your players do, again I must say it was much worse in 1e.&nbsp; First off very few people played by ALL the rules in the DMG, else you would soon discover that high strength fighters would roam around in Field Plate armor wielding daggers for the extra attacks that speed modifers would grant you.&nbsp; The exploitation factor of the old rules as written was rather high.&nbsp; Moreover, the 1e system would tack new subsystems on to further describe the world, often with very complicated results.&nbsp; Having to say no to a catergory of feats like Psionic Feats, Bardic Music feats, Divine Feats and so on pale in comparison to whole new rules like the Two weapon fighting rule introduced by Roger Moore in Dragon Magazine or the Comeliness rules which with a good score allowed people to use in effect a charm spell upon others.&nbsp;Ultimately I believe that 3e is a better tool kit to describe a fantasy world than 1e or 2e was.&nbsp; I do think the number crunching can blind you, but monsters and characters can truly be epic, which is certainly not the case in old D&amp;D, where Human Wizards reigned supreme, and Dragons and Elves and Dwarfs were on the decline because they could never overcome the limitations built into the rules.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="satori01, post: 1996298, member: 7859"] Perhaps I am not understanding you BU, I thought your primary argument was that WOTC spends so much time creating crunch, that people focus entirely upon statistics and neglect the more "contextual" components of playing the game. I disagree with this assertion, as in the example of a Paladin's detect evil ability additional flavor enhancers can be added quite easily to any abillity enhancing its flavor. D20 companies in many ways have not done enough to marriage game flavor with mechanical concepts, however I dont think 1e or 2e products were any better, indeed I believe they were often worse. Mike Mearls I believe is the cutting edge of flavorful mechanics, taking Ceremonial feats and ceremonies in AU improving on the ideas in the superb books Mystic Secrets and The Book of Iron Might,(though to be fair Iron Might is not an AU book but a great way of opening the restraing system of 3e combat). As for feats and classes requiring you to vete what your players do, again I must say it was much worse in 1e. First off very few people played by ALL the rules in the DMG, else you would soon discover that high strength fighters would roam around in Field Plate armor wielding daggers for the extra attacks that speed modifers would grant you. The exploitation factor of the old rules as written was rather high. Moreover, the 1e system would tack new subsystems on to further describe the world, often with very complicated results. Having to say no to a catergory of feats like Psionic Feats, Bardic Music feats, Divine Feats and so on pale in comparison to whole new rules like the Two weapon fighting rule introduced by Roger Moore in Dragon Magazine or the Comeliness rules which with a good score allowed people to use in effect a charm spell upon others. Ultimately I believe that 3e is a better tool kit to describe a fantasy world than 1e or 2e was. I do think the number crunching can blind you, but monsters and characters can truly be epic, which is certainly not the case in old D&D, where Human Wizards reigned supreme, and Dragons and Elves and Dwarfs were on the decline because they could never overcome the limitations built into the rules. [/QUOTE]

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