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Message: <blockquote data-quote="buzz" data-source="post: 4071114" data-attributes="member: 6777">Last I checked, my copy of HERO 5ER is 500+ pages. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />While this is true when you're talking about the Powers system, it overlooks the fact that HERO is generally far more detailed outside of that aspect of the system than D&D is. E.g., iirc, the rules for basic senses (i.e., Spot and Listen in d20 terms) are somewhere around, what, 4-5 pages? Add in the combat maneuvers, acceleration/deceleration, tracking END, CON stunning, turn modes, Transfer/Drain, adding damage to attacks (esp. Advantaged attacks), post segment 12 REC, etc... HERO gets pretty detail-dense. Add in Heroic options (hit locations, bleeding, disabling, etc) and things get even more complicated.Ergo, I think all of this more than makes up for all of D&D's corner-cases and the complications that magic generally introduces. As for "total pages needed," a typical D&D player needs far less than 300 pages of understanding. DMs, otoh... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Ergo, I see them as fairly equal.I dunno, I find this terminology pretty useless. Both "heavy" and "lite" are basically derogatory terms used by their respective opponents. Ergo, you get threads like this where people jump up to defend their system of choice from either label.An RPG either has an acceptable level of handling time or it doesn't; i.e., it either facilitates enjoyable play or it doesn't. I've played RPGs with varying page counts that succeed and fail in this regard.D&D 3.5 currently tests my tolerance for fiddling, at least at higher levels. It definitely puts me off as a DM if I'm not running a published adventure, as the prep time is just too large. I still enjoy it, but am looking forward to the changes in 4e.</blockquote>

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